Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Okay now I know, I explained myself, and I would like to try again sometime later after I looked at the whole series and found a better person.
I'm confused. Have you not seen the series in full?
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Neeku's candidates
I actually have, the whole set, yes. That’s not the issue. However, admittedly it has been a long time since I last watched it, so therefore I was relying on what I think I remembered from watching the show a while ago. Therefore, I truly thought that all I said was what Spiel actually did, but then you guys told me what really happened, and so I apologize for what you say was made up and misconstrued about him. Please don’t hold this against me and give me a chance to watch the series again and see if I can find someone who more appropriately meets the requirements. If Spiel is wrongly reported, then by all means please fix it and let Winter be alone again, but know that once I find someone else, I can repeat my proposal from before and try again, if you let me? If any of you gents happen to have someone else in mind, just for recommendation, please tell me, and I will look at the episode in question and make the proposal accordingly. Otherwise, I can keep looking.
Does this mean you will get rid of Kuroda as well?! I told the truth about him, and all he did was exactly from the Iron Man show, and thus the unambiguous truth, I swear.
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 14th 2023 at 2:59:13 AM
Neeku, with all due respect, when you say you told nothing but the truth for these candidates, I do not believe you. Just to Roygar
Okay, with Spiel you’re right. With Roygar, maybe you’re right. With Kuroda at least, that’s exactly what happened and everything I said is true. If you still don’t believe me, go find the anime and see for yourself and you’ll see that I didn’t lie about him at least.
Okay considering the situation I'm switching to Abstain on Roygar until I’m getting a second opinion from someone else who’s familiar with the show, too.
The Moron
Neeku, it's not our job to verify the information of yours we don't trust, and this isn't the thread to do it. Everyone take any Kuroda discussion to the cleanup thread
RIP Toriyama
- Dune (1984):
- Baron Vladimir Harkonnen is a grotesque, cackling beast of a man who masterminds the slaughter of House Atreides by holding the wife of Dr. Yueh hostage with no intent to ever let Yueh live. Having forced his nephew Feyd-Rautha to become his perfect heir via abuse, Harkonnen dispatches the brutal Rabban to slaughter the Fremen of Dune so he might take control of the planet before personally attempting to oversee the remaining slaughter.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, Ravok, you posting an expanded OG!Harkonnen writeup?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Here’s my last one for the week, considering your three works rule and all. And yes people Imwatched the anime, I saw everything that happened, and all I say here is what happened, but if no one cares to look, again find the anime and see for yourselves. Now, hear me out and see what you think:
What is the work? Witchblade. No, I’m not talking about the TV series or even the comic books. I’m talking about the anime, the same one very well known for its copious fan service. Witchblade is a series that follows an amnesiac girl who was found and tasked with adopting and watching over a small toddler until her real mother could be found. In the interim of finding a legitimate career to support her and the child, she accidentally becomes bonded to a mystical artifact that turns her into a savage warrior who gets off on violence and fighting until the power inevitably burns itself out completely and kills her, just as it had done to all the previous users of the same artifact. When two separate corporations became determined to use the artifact for their own aims, that girl becomes embroiled into a giant conspiracy that affects not just her but the entirety of Japan as well.
Who are the people? Well first of all, there already is a monster listed there, and that is Tatsuoki Furumizu, aka Father, well guess what? Now he will have accomplices to share his evil with. The proposal will be Shiori Tsuzuki, the one of said experiments who was, as a matter of fact, truly a bad egg from the very start.
What atrocities did he/she/they do? Shiori is a particularly nasty example of a Yandere, who regularly leers and flirts with her boss Dr. Reina, and is outright obsessed with her, and that ain’t a good thing. Having a fondness for rape, necrophilia, and murder in addition to her instinctive lust for combat, she repeatedly butchers her fellow staff and even her own lesser Cloneblades as she slowly descends into murderous insanity. You would think that she would be sympathetic due to being another one of those things being created by the Dr. Nishida, but consider this: she was established to be a perverted, deranged lunatic from the very beginning, as she repeatedly attempted to provoke Masane into fighting her to the death for her own sadomasochistic amusement, and even threatened to butcher Takayama and her reporter friend once she spotted them, almost succeeding in killing Masane herself and chasing down her friends like a predator does to her prey. As soon as she finally lost it completely, she goes on a rampage and begins indiscriminately raping and killing innocent people, starting with the attendants taking care of her wounds, before attempting to kill Reina for rejecting her aggressive advances. Finally, as soon as she reaches her clone degeneration, she tried to rape Takayama himself on his yacht with sheer sexual sadism.
Redeeming/mitigating/sympathetic factors? None on all ends. Shiori’s love for Reina is purely obsessive and perverted, as she has done all sorts of creepy sexual acts regarding her obsession with her, and it is obvious that she only saw her as an outlet for her own lust that she reacted violently to when she stood against her, a sort of a needlessly destructive “if I can’t have you, then no else will” situation. While Shiori’s sudden melting demise is tragic indeed, the same with all the other Cloneblades after her, all the actions she took prior to this was unsympathetic and even her tragic demise is ultimately subversive at best.
What makes him/her/them stand out? Shiori perfectly exemplifies the fact just that sexual preference, romantic attraction, and sexuality does absolutely nothing to justify your behavior in the end. She stands heads over her multitudes of sympathetic fellow Cloneblades as a genuinely psychotic stalker, sexual sadist, serial rapist, and definitive necrophile. She’s even worse than Maria, who was at her worst just a petulant child. Shiori is childish too, but not in a way that makes her tragic in any means. If anything else, she is treated like a wild animal just desperately waiting to get her chance to rape and kill anything that comes her way. And consider the fact that this is supposed to be an ecchi anime, with beautiful women and silly or tragic characters abound; but that ultimately doesn’t mean anything, just ask High School DXD or Rosario Vampire for proof. Despite the obvious ecchi setting here, the show is filled to the brim with corrupt businessmen, weapons dealers, repulsive perverts, serial killers, sexual predators, and lunatics of the highest order.
Treated with fear? Yes, as I mentioned already at length, Shiori is treated like a rabid animal just desperately waiting to break out and do some colossal damage, with many of the staff visibly nervous around her and her obsession Reina trying her best to tame her down, before remorselessly trying to kill her just as soon as she firsthand saw just how disgusting and uncontrollable Shiori truly is.
Conclusion? Shiori deserves to be added onto the list, and rightfully so.
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 14th 2023 at 3:10:51 AM
The Moron
No on principle Neeku, we're literally in the middle of dealing with several of your candidates who either do or might have false information in them so I cannot trust this.
Read the room Neeku, I'm not touching this since I cannot trust you
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Not the Eye
to Roygar and not voting on Witchblade EP.
Showtime!
Yeah, this is where most people would take a step back and stop proposing
to Shiori on principle
However, the EP is asserting the character most certainly counts and from a viewer of the anime, I'm hearing there are severe issues keeping Shiori off the list. For the sake of open communication I'd like to hear their downvote because some things need to be cleared up.
RIP Toriyama
Absolutely no to Shiori from me. She is very, very explicitly messed up in the head. The very nature of being a Neogene is very fucked up in how they are cloned and created to be a creepy, lecherous old man's sex warriors on a timer until death, and she explicitly is driven insane by her deteriorating clone mind and body. She's completely lacking in agency.
Edited by Ravok on Dec 14th 2023 at 3:18:19 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
I don’t care if no one trusts me, I am just trying to do better. But if I messed up, and my proposals are refused, then I’m gonna accept it and move on. I don’t want any trouble. And I certainly don’t want to give anyone any problems either. Please don’t block me and I hope you can let me do better with my proposing.
Also, no to Shiori, Kyala, and Roygar? Man, I am unsuccessful at this. Oh well, I tried. Hopefully I can try again with someone else another time.
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 14th 2023 at 3:21:00 AM
Not quite sure how her psyche got missed out on in interpreting her as a willing monster but likewise not to Shiori.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Shiori
Hey let me ask you an honest question. And I will ignore whoever says that they don’t trust me. I know you said that I am only supposed to do three works at a time? But am I allowed to propose multiple characters in one of said works? Not like add a fourth project, but like add another character from the same project that was already proposed? Am I allowed to do that? Example, am I allowed to propose someone else entirely from Witchblade or Highlander with the knowledge that the one I proposed is a no? I am talking about a different person, that’s what I mean. Or do I wait until next week like normal to approach you with that? Just wanted to know?
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 14th 2023 at 3:25:25 AM
The Moron
You can do that but I'm gonna be blunt, if you do that right now I guarantee you'll just be downvoted.
Though to be frank, you would know that if you read the rules like we asked you to last time. It's literally the first rule.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
That's actually not true, you can have three works active at a time per user, not characters at a time
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 14th 2023 at 6:26:32 AM
You gotta wait. It's still a different EP.
Guess I'm wrong, lol.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Dec 14th 2023 at 11:26:21 AM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Cool, thanks.
Edited by Neeku-Nekku-Nakuru-Nikua on Dec 14th 2023 at 3:27:28 AM
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 14th 2023 at 5:46:22 AM