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Complete Monster Cleanup

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.

If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.

IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.

What goes through this thread?

    Examples 
  • Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
  • If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
  • If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
  • Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
  • If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.

What does not go through this thread?

    Examples 
  • New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
  • Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
    • Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
    • If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
  • Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
  • Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
  • Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
    • Spelling and grammar fixes.
    • Pothole changes.
    • Minor rewordings.
    • Spoiler tags.

While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:

  1. Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
  2. If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
  3. Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.

Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.

As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.

Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#11501: Jan 10th 2024 at 9:26:01 AM

Cut Beatrice and all of Echidna's entries. If someone is caught plagiarizing once, chances are that they're a repeat offender.

Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
Flowman Since: Dec, 2021
#11502: Jan 10th 2024 at 9:45:52 AM

Cut Echidna examples that cannot be verified.

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#11503: Jan 10th 2024 at 10:06:04 AM

Vanitas keeps Coming from Darkness doesn’t mean you lack agency in Kingdom Hearts especially when Vanitas clear as day admits that he could choose to be good but is just happy being evil

Also Ansem Seeker of darkness is a heartless yet had MA

So agency text is passed

[down]Well Darkness isn’t inherently always evil in KH

Riku uses Darkness and he is a good guy

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 10th 2024 at 10:13:02 AM

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#11504: Jan 10th 2024 at 10:11:40 AM

[up]Okay, okay, I'm not arguing. My memory of KH isn't the best, which is why I was asking. I do understand now that this is a Trigon situation where even if Vanitas is Made of Evil, he actively chooses to embrace his nature when others don't.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#11505: Jan 10th 2024 at 10:37:28 AM

With that information, I re-submit my “cut them all” vote.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Klavice Since: Jan, 2011
#11506: Jan 10th 2024 at 10:53:11 AM

Should we do the same for MB too?

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#11507: Jan 10th 2024 at 10:58:37 AM

At a recommendation, I decided to check out Vanitas. It's not directly plagiarized, but very clearly a compressed version of the VW article. There's a recurring pattern of just summarizing VW paragraphs into single sentences.

    TVT vs VW 
  • "Vanitas was a faceless being hating himself for being weak" vs "At first, Vanitas was a faceless being much like a Heartless but with red eyes... In a way, Vanitas hated himself for being so weak."
  • "He decides to destroy the Unversed with his Keyblade after questioning his own existence" vs "soon started questioning why he was born... he destroyed the Unversed with his Keyblade without any hesitation"
  • "Vanitas then confronts Ven and attempts to murder him, taunting him that he will never meet Terra, but is saved by Mickey" vs "After Ven's training, Vanitas arrives and taunts him about being weak before leaving and tells him that if he does not chase Terra, he will never see him again. Vanitas later met Ven at the Badlands and attempted to kill him, thinking he was too weak, but Mickey saved him and Vanitas left."
  • "He meets Aqua and battles her before abandoning her for an unknown reason" vs "Back in Neverland, he met Aqua again and fought her because he no longer needed her. After the battle, she faints and he leaves; it is unknown why he didn't finish her off."
  • "Vanitas then fights Aqua and Ventus, and just as he is about to kill Aqua, Ventus saves her" vs "Vanitas then fights against Aqua and Ventus at the Keyblade Graveyard and then he faces Terra with Xehanort's help, though he leaves midway through the battle so he can forge the χ-blade. Vanitas knocks Aqua out and was about to finish her, but Ventus recovers and fights Vanitas"
  • "Vanitas freed Randall to gain negative energy from children as he confronts Sora and Ventus but before he can do anything Sully yeats him in the doors" vs "Vanitas is revealed to have freed Randall Boggs so he would aid him in gathering negative emotions from children... In the nick of time, Sulley grabbed Vanitas and threw him into four doors with the last one being put in the shredder."

I also got recommended that I check out all three of his Voice candidates, and yeah, between VW articles and PE proposals, I'm 100% confident that Echidna plagiarized all three. Masayuki is the most glaringly obvious - EP vs VW, for reference. I don't have the time to pull all the quotes from all three candidates, but I have no confidence in them anymore. I was previously the one who was calling for patience and to wait before cutting all of them, but I've changed my mind. Cut everything Echidna did.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#11508: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:01:27 AM

Yeah, I have to agree, cut it all

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#11509: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:03:20 AM

Unfortunately I have to say chop em all. I can't say they were made in good faith so they can't stay.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11510: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:04:10 AM

Anyway yeah cut their 3 voice examples.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TurlesTheVegan from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#11512: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:24:24 AM

Would sadly have to agree, too many untrustworthy instances here. I can tackle a Vanitas re-proposal if we so wish.

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Iceaura39 from Where joy and happiness go to cry (Petty Master) Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#11513: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:24:40 AM

I saw on the Former Complete Monsters page that we can explain our reasoning for characters proposed by G-Editor and Echidna if we think they don't count, thus possibly moving them to an appropriate folder for an actual reason. With that in mind, I have come here to vouch against Boss from Akudama Drive, proposed by G.

For the most part, Boss does actually pass the heinous standards, but for her very last scene in the last episode, I found something disqualifying. After Pupil forces her to look upon the chaos and death that her orders have caused, pointing out that this is not what Executioners are supposed to do, and it is not justice by any definition of the term, Boss seems to take this to heart. She looks positively horrified, and though she doesn't say anything after this, she sounds like she's on the verge of tears. It really reads like a My God, What Have I Done? moment, which is naturally not conducive to a Complete Monster. I think Boss comes close, but is too remorseful at the end to count.

Edited by Iceaura39 on Jan 10th 2024 at 7:25:13 PM

It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11514: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:33:23 AM

Don't mind you redoing his reevaluation Ravok.

Also guess boss can stay removed.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
#11515: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:38:32 AM

Cut all of Echidna's candidates.

So, what are we going to do about the Fan Works page giving the too big warning?

Edited by Bullman on Jan 10th 2024 at 1:39:03 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#11517: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:39:55 AM

[up][up]Right that got side tracked. How do we split.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#11518: Jan 10th 2024 at 11:42:17 AM

Thank you, STAR. Cut all of Echidna's candidates.

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#11519: Jan 10th 2024 at 12:10:49 PM

Feel free to propose Vanitas Ravok

It’s worth mentioning that I have a new Kingdom Hearts CM in mind

So look forward to that as well

Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#11520: Jan 10th 2024 at 12:17:51 PM

Oh btw, cut Kor.

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
#11521: Jan 10th 2024 at 12:53:56 PM

We have 15 cut votes for Kor, how does the cut tallying work now again?

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
#11522: Jan 10th 2024 at 12:59:42 PM

Seriously how do we want to handle the Fan Works page? Separate the Marvel or some other group folder or by medium this time?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#11523: Jan 10th 2024 at 12:59:53 PM

Cut boss

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
#11524: Jan 10th 2024 at 1:04:05 PM

Which fan works media folder is the longest?

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
TurlesTheVegan from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#11525: Jan 10th 2024 at 1:05:56 PM

Cut Boss, I'm fine with a Vanitas re-evaluation.

As for the Fan Works page, probably either split off Dragon Ball (has 15 entries) or Marvel (13, not counting Nicky since that's one of Echidna's).


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