Complete Monster Cleanup

Admittedly. I understand the concern. Though for me, while undeniably having some laughably evil moments. I feel the overall tone of the song is dark enough, their crimes are still taken seriously and they are still played as pretty terrifying threats with their depravity. I'm open to other opinions though.

Now i will challenge one of my own. This guy from Assassin's Creed

• Syndicate: Tobias Jeffers note is a leatherworker responsible for disappearance of several people of Fleet Street. After killing his victims, he sends their flesh to a bakery as meat for pies, grounds their bones into manure, which he sends to a florist shop, and uses their skin as a leather for his products. His most recent victim is Detective Murphy, who was investigating the disappearances; Tobias uses his skin to make a handbag. After deliveryman George become suspicious about the nature of products he was delivering, Jeffers kills him to avoid begin caught. Confronted about his crimes, he gleefully admits them.

Using human skin as leather isn't really unique. In Unity there is a leatherworker forced by Saint-Just's thugs to make a leather from human skin and in Dead Kings DLC one of side missions revolves around a man who uses human skin for book covers.

On other hand, Tobias unlike other two works completely alone and also send his victim's flesh to bakery thus tricking innocent citizens into involuntary cannibalism which makes him unique.

So what do you think keep or cut?

Unsure. How high is his body count?

So should we replace Knight of Cerebus with Dragons Are Demonic for Malefor?

I honestly think Knight of Cerebus is fine for him? I would go either way.

Echoing the query on Tobias' body count since he seems to be the bottom of resources as well?

Being the one who did the Malefor rewrite I think Knight of Cerebus is better for him IMO.

Would anyone mind if I expand Azshara's entry from Warcraft a little:

• Azshara, the Light of Lights, is the former ancient queen of the Night Elves who, in her endless goal to obtain power and perfection, nearly led all of Azeroth to total ruin. 10,000 years ago, Azshara used her magic to enthrall her people to love her without question while also seeking to purify the world of any she deemed imperfect, who included all but herself and her Highborne servants. While attempting to enact this purification with the power of the Well of Eternity, she caught the attention of Sargeras, creator of the omnicidal Burning Legion. When he offered to aid in her goal in exchange for allowing his armies to rampage over Azeroth, Azshara agreed without question. Her actions to satisfy her own limitless vanity led to the War of the Ancients, the deaths of countless innocents, and the breaking of the entire world. Azshara then makes a deal with the Old Gods, who turn her and her servants into the first naga. As their Empress, Azshara can be held directly responsible for every atrocity committed by the naga throughout the franchise.

The only notable crime listed in her current entry is that she let the Burning Legion enter Azeroth in an attempt to eradicate all life in the world 10000 years. To be fair, this is the main reason why she is able to pass the heinous standard, but her entry mentions that she can be held responsible for the atrocities committed by the Naga, but doesn't specify what exactly they do. Also, I would like to add that she frees the Old God N'zoth from his prison and this is important to list considering he is another CM and he plans to restore the Black Empire on Azeroth which would doom the world. Also, the entry only says she "allows" Sargeras' armies to rampage across Azeroth and I think it should specify that this means she opens a portal for his armies because this highlights that they wouldn't even be able to come to Azeroth without her.

So, I propose this as an expanded entry for Azshara:

• Azshara, the Light of Lights, is the former ancient queen of the Night Elves who, in her endless goal to obtain power and perfection, nearly led all of Azeroth to total ruin. 10,000 years ago, Azshara used her magic to enthrall her people to love her without question while also seeking to purify the world of any she deemed imperfect, who included all but herself and her Highborne servants. While attempting to enact this purification with the power of the Well of Eternity, she caught the attention of Sargeras, creator of the omnicidal Burning Legion. When he offered to aid in her goal in exchange for opening a portal for his armies to rampage over Azeroth, Azshara agreed without question. Her actions to satisfy her own limitless vanity led to the War of the Ancients, the deaths of countless innocents, and the breaking of the entire world. Azshara then makes a deal with N'Zoth, who turns her and her servants into the first naga. As their Empress, Azshara oversees the enslavement and slaughter of countless beings over the course of thousands of years.

Edited by WatTambor on Aug 29th 2023 at 10:25:21 PM

Look good Wat.

Gonna wait for somebody more familiar with series to comment on Tobias since Heinous standard is enormous.

Being fair, I'm not sure releasing N'zoth should be under her rap sheet, given her intent was to betray and kill him before taking the world herself.

Yeah, you are right. I had actually misremembered that part of her plan.

Still, I feel her entry should specify that she is responsible for murders and slavery instead of just saying she is responsible for every atrocity committed by the Naga because that's too vague.

Edited by WatTambor on Aug 29th 2023 at 10:37:41 PM

Wet: I got it. I'll use Knight for his name, Dragons Are Demonic around "monstrously evil dragon", and just scrub the Rock Monster pothole.

I'm fully in accord with a little specificity!

@Laurel

Yeah I personally do not see anything D Qing with that. It is just a case of a pair of psycho's cracking jokes rather than played for laughs comedy going on. There are songs with real preventing comedy or tone, and I do not think this is one of them.

Edited by Snoketrope on Aug 29th 2023 at 4:35:25 AM

Keep the Stupendium train guys, they're more like the joker, darkly comedic sadists rather than full on Played for Laughs

Also, I feel like bringing it up, the guy with the unapproved entry from this post now that I've caught up on the series could arguably meet the series' insane heinous standard, organizing a massive army to slaughter, pillage and enslave millions, but he has redeeming qualities, like he genuinely considers the guy he has running the army his friend

Just noticed that for Halo the Prophet of truth's entry has Godhood Seeker potholed twice

Edited by Agentofchaos on Aug 29th 2023 at 7:31:31 AM

Fixed the Halo thing.

I personally think Jeffers is heinous enough. The person who uses human skin for clothing in Unity is a fairly high-ranking government member from what I recall while Jeffers is just a ordinary citizen with one unwitting accomplice. Also he doesn’t just use human skin as clothing but also mass tricks people into cannibalism and wearing those clothes For The Evulz which is pretty unique even for this franchise.

I was looking through the Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, and I'd like to discuss a bit Koba's entry and whether or not he truly qualifies or not.

• Koba is a xenophobic ape of the highest order. Initially loyal to Caesar, he was disgusted with the fact that Caesar would bring humans into their territory, so Koba decides to betray his leader and take matters into his own hands. Displaying his callousness by murdering two guards, Koba raids the armory of the human city, returning to shoot Caesar and burn down his former home. Pinning the blame on the humans, Koba rallies the misguided apes into attacking San Francisco. Koba shows his hypocritical nature by cruelly tossing the young Ash to his death when he refuses to kill defenseless people in Caesar's name. Upon taking over the city, Koba imposes his rule by trapping the humans in cages and imprisoning any ape still loyal to Caesar in chains. When finally confronted by Caesar, Koba snaps and starts gunning down his former comrades, even as Caesar is trying to help them. Displaying savagery to human and ape alike, Koba proved to be no better than the worst of the humans he despised.

Okay, so the cruelty described stands firm and would qualify him as a CM right off the bat... if not for the Firestorm novel, which describes Koba's past and gives him one hell of a Freudian Excuse. Namely:

1. Getting abused by an alcoholic primate shelter worker named Roger and witnessing his mother getting beaten to death with a sack of oranges.

2. Becoming an animal performer for a TV show run by an even worse abuser named Tommy, getting tortured with electricity for even the slightest failure along with his chimp friend Milo and getting slashed with the knife plus having an eye burnt out with a cigarette after standingn up.

3. Becoming a lab rat for a duo of immoral scientists who performed several hideous experiments on him: one had Koba's mouth wired shut and the injection had him puke and ultimately pass out; the other one was not felt much because of having been tranquilized, but after Koba woke up, he felt a nasty headache, a pain in the side and had to throw up again. All while being held in a barebones cage.

4. Getting experimented on by an Affably Evil neuroscientist named Amol with a machine intended to prove the cognitive ability and produce images right from the brain. Needless to say, the process was far from harmless despite the man's reassurances, with Koba feeling crippling pain after the machine was used several times, one such time making him shriek out loud. Oh, and the supervisor of the whole thing? It was Steven Jacobs, who not only blamed Koba for the experiment ultimately failing, but also claimed he would put the bonobo down if he could (the guy was not the Gen-Sys CEO at the time, nor that it made things any better).

5. Becoming a victim for many more painful experiments, all due to being "ugly". Such experiments included vivisection, breathing a gas which gave him horrible cough for days, having needles stuck in his stomach without anesthetic and getting his eyes sprayed with a liquid that hurt worse than tear gas.

6. Receiving a harsh speech by Jacobs years later; the man not only rubbed his new CEO position in the bonobo's face, but he also called him nothing more than an animal. This was what finally broke Koba and turned him into the human hater we all know, which leads to him abandoning any affection towards humans (including Mary, one of the only humans who had been nice to him) and wanting to get back at them.

The novel in question is labeled as the official movie prequel to Dawn, and it explains quite a lot of stuff, like Koba using the tricks he learned during the TV show performance to fool two guards into lowering their guns down and kill them afterwards. While this may be about the same case as, say, Drago Bludvist, I think Koba may be worth some discussion here, unless he had already been brought up before.

Edited by DukeNukem4ever on Aug 30th 2023 at 4:54:40 AM

Hmmm, this does sound concerning. I'll wait for what others who are more knowledgable on this series have to say.

Do you have a source for the novel being canon?

It was released right before the film premiered in the cinemas, all to tell what exactly started to happen after Rise and what led to apes becoming dominant in Dawn.

I see

Umm aren't these been brought up before by the old thread at least (I'm sure all discussions about Koba were brought up there)? I think the argument brought up at that time was no other ape reacts the same way he did despite suffering from similar things and whatever he did was still way too egregiously disproportionate.

Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 30th 2023 at 8:56:34 PM

I think by the end, Koba has had literally decades in peace and his ultimate betrayal and attempted usurpation of Caesar is about powerand hate. Complex example to be sure, though...like by the end, he's so hungry for authority he murders the ape equivalent of a teenager and plans to start killing all his old friends without a hint of remors.e

I do not recall any other ape that had it worse than (or even as much as) Koba imho; while Caesar had quite a rough time in San Bruno Primate Shelter, it can't hold a candle to the physical torture Koba went through.

Edited by DukeNukem4ever on Aug 30th 2023 at 6:04:10 AM

Question

If there any evidence he didn’t care about his mom?

x2 The point is that according to lighty he had like decades of time to let go but he didn't and went slaying literally anyone who dares speak against him. The rest of the apes had given up at that point.

Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 30th 2023 at 9:14:32 PM