Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Gotta love Jaws!
Cut the Rat King
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 13th 2022 at 4:42:29 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Just a suggestion but would it worth adding a Cut List section on the drafts page?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Man in the Yellow Hat
I must say, didn't expect Rat King's votes to be that straightforward. I expected division and weak cuts, not around a dozen unanimous cuts and a vote saying it "seems like a cut-and-dry chop". Guess my biggest detractor was myself.
Anyway, to contribute something, cut Karin, definitely for loving Akira and for failing the standards to people with more painful plans than her, like...brainwashing dolphins to emit painful hypersonic waves, whatever the hell that entails.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Dec 13th 2022 at 9:27:40 AM
He/Him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I support Wet's suggestion of adding a Cut List to the Draft's page
Professor Gigachad
You know now that we are talking about actually making the Marvel Films page there is another related one that might not be a bad idea thinking about it. DC Live-Action TV currently has around 31 entries if I counted correctly, which damn is far more than I expected. And most of the shows do kind of have some loose connection through the Arrowverse so it might not be the worst idea. Eh, I could go either way with this one.
Also before you ask, Marvel has like 3 outside of the MCU so no way that is happening.
Actually this gives me a better idea, we could just combine them into a general DC and Marvel Live-Action page just like we do for Animation.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 13th 2022 at 7:28:55 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Chronic lore addict
Lurker here. Given the guidelines, should the Scarlet King's entry (at Monster.SCP Foundation) be updated to say which iteration it's referring to?
The SCP Foundation has an infamous Unreliable Canon, leading to a lot of distinct alternate continuities by different writers and which can make characterization and background change on a dime for some characters. The Scarlet King is no different; as his entry currently stands, it implies that it applies to all of his incarnations, but in my time reading the wiki I've run into at least two major interpretations of him with potential disqualifying factors:
- In Tufto's Proposal, he is an embodiment of conflict between modernity and primitive life, and his general character changes depending on what civilization believes he is. This would possibly render him Made of Evil.
- In the pataphysics SCPs (SCP-5317, SCP-6747, etc.) he is a cog in a machine to the Omnicidal Maniac SCP-2747, who either has free will (5317) or is in turn being used by someone who does (6747.)note 5317 and 6747 aren't explicitly part of the same narrative, but both draw the same conclusion that 2747 is the one who's actually pulling the strings.
Worth noting is that the writeups for the other gods on the page (Jeser, the Ambassador, and Fritz Williams) specifically cite which articles they qualify in, but the Scarlet King's does not.
If those interpretations were ruled to be a non-issue in the old threads I apologize, but it's just something that popped into my head after remembering the guidelines about alternate continuities.
Edited by TrocyteV on Dec 13th 2022 at 7:48:01 AM
"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
If you want to be technical, this specific Scarlet King refers to Verse of an Endless Song series, which much of the fandom treats at the Scarlet King's "canon" mythos, often being used as the baseline to his lore.
With that being said, different continuities and takes are as common to the SCP mythos as it is with Marvel and DC, I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to mention Verse of an Endless Song when referring to that particular take.
Edited by Beast on Dec 13th 2022 at 7:56:53 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I hate to say this, but yeah, cut Rat King. Truth be told, I was wondering about that one scene before his death, but I didn't think it was actual care at the time. Guess I was wrong.
Don't know much of NCIS, but I DO know the episode that features Robert Hill as my mom watches that show, and yeah, I says he keeps as from what I saw, he is a pretty despicable character, especially with the implied rape of his daughter.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Ordeaux26: Yeah a live action page might not be a bad idea.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
I meant live action.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 13th 2022 at 10:27:37 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@Trocyte V Can't give an opinion there sorry, my SCP knowledge is very minimal.
@Bull Love action?Pretty sure that's a different form of media bud. If we were to do the live action merges. Have the MCU and Arrow verse under a heading?
Like this?
Spoiler disclaimer
MCU
Films
Series
Other
Other Marvel films
Folderise the groups like X men?Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 13th 2022 at 4:26:34 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I was thinking of keeping the MCU and Arrowverse separate. Sort of like how Batman is a separate subpage for The DCU?
Edited by Bullman on Dec 13th 2022 at 10:30:48 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Shit I misread it as one massive merger of Live Action, apologies.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
So I created the Monster DC Live Action and Monster Marvel Live Action pages, for now they are sandboxes so we can get a general idea and test things out.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Can I just tweak the layout for the DC one Ordeaux?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
That is fine with me. The sandbox is open for editing in general.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I don't know if it's the best place to talk about but someone added this on YMMV.Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 2
- Heartwarming in Hindsight:
- Ego allowing Mantis to live on his planet and treating her relatively well means a lot more in retrospect after the Holiday Special revealed that she's one of his biological children as well, and by extension Peter's half-sister. The fact that Ego didn't kill her immediately after she didn't have the Celestial gene suddenly goes beyond him just keeping her around as a way to help his body fall asleep.
Uuh from what I recall, Ego treats Mantis like a servant and directly tries to kill her during the climax. I don't think that "he didn't kill her immediatly" is mitigating.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Finished my tweak to the DC sandbox
Yeah I've not seen the holiday special but the IIRC Ego kept Mantis about because she could help him sleep?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lizzid people!
Yes, that is the stated reason he kept her around.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Oh and since the discussion for it has slightly simmered for JAG, here's the list of the Hawaii Five-O candidates.
Also are people ok with me tackling a rewrite for Tom?
- "Random on Purpose": "The Phantom", real name Tom Smith, was a notorious Serial Killer. Taking great pleasure in killing throughout his life, he started killing animals as a child, before moving on to humans as an adult. He traveled to many small cities where he would use his job as a receptionist to lure anyone, regardless of age or gender, into traps and kill them in various fashions. His killings grabbed the attention of Abigail "Abby" Sciuto, who travels to Los Angeles when she heard of his latest kill taking place there. When he notices Abby, he kidnaps her where he tell her about all of his murders and how she and him have a "connection" and Abby, in disgust, responds by calling him a creep. Feeling insulted, Smith then tries to decapitate her with an axe before being killed by the Los Angeles team who came to rescue Abby.
Professor Gigachad
I don't see anyone else on the page that is a problem.
And sure you can take a shot at rewriting him, it really needs it.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Re. Tsugumomo... to answer the question of whether or not Dabada Dabaharl violates the P5 content policy... pretty much every chapter of the Tsugumomo manga has content that violates the P5 policies after a certain point. Heck, even the supporting characters violate the P5 policies — main character Kazuya's older sister happily molested him when he was a child, and his mother was a serial rapist before she even hit puberty.
Dabada Dabaharl summons a horde of tentacle-rape demons and sacrifices adventurers to them in hopes of becoming a dark goddess, physically and sexually tortures the teenaged (IIRC he starts off being 15 or 16) Kazuya Kagami and teenaged-looking Kiriha when she captures them as slaves (including sending them to be violated by the tentacle-rape demons, in the hopes of them being killed), and keeps Kazuya's harem of tsukumogami — including the underaged-looking Mimane Miyō (who looks like she's 10, if not younger) and Shinobu (who looks like she's 12 or 13) — as sex-slaves, forcing them to have lesbian sex with each other to entertain her clients (not that Mimane minds, since she gleefully forces herself on whoever she's paired with).
She also forces a Cat Girl to work for her as a slaver by threatening to murder her prepubescent sister, then sacrifices said prepubescent sister to the tentacle-rape demons to become a dark goddess (Kazuya and Kiriha are able to save her before her life essence is completely drained).
So, given the above I'd say she definitely violates the P5 content policy, but that's what makes her stand out as a Complete Monster in such a rape-played-for-laughs-and-fanservice heavy series.
Edited by Arawn999 on Dec 13th 2022 at 11:48:53 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
I can be fine with DD going.
IPP Wick Check created.
Professor Gigachad
Okay yeah in that case we can probably just axe Dabada altogether.
Honestly, this also makes me concerned that this setting is too messed up for anyone to stand out.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 13th 2022 at 11:51:44 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
ACW when it comes just stuff like that? I'd say at least a double digits edge if they're lacking the extra sadistic flourishes.
EDIT would anyone oppose me tackling a rewrite for Tom? This is his current:
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 13th 2022 at 1:29:44 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.