Complete Monster Cleanup

Lighty, exactly how new is this characterization for Apocalypse? This came up a few months ago and fury says that at least three different writers have given him redeeming qualities so I'm not sure how long this stuff needs to be around before he needs to be cut

Actually about Volk, the London mission before the attacks kick off, the intro states that the "mysterious cargo" was shipped by his industry and since he's the one who also made the chemo-weapons... would folks be alright with me giving Volk an EP?

I don't see a problem with that.

Sounds worth a shot Wet

I was a big fan of Carnby Kim's first web manhwa Bastard (2014), so I decided to read the series he worked on next, Sweet Home (2017) and also really enjoyed it. However, I noticed that the Complete Monster entries for the series reflect information on the webcomic in a way that's flat-out incorrect.

Firstly, I think Joon Shin should be cut. While he's a selfish mass-murdering psychopath, one of his subordinates, who lived near him, mentions that he specifically made a point to try to find his family's house after the outbreak in order to make sure they were safe. It's pretty clear this is motivated out of care for them because when he gets there and discovers they've been murdered by monsters, he is shown to be absolutely horrified goes into a fit of rage to attack the monster that had just killed them. Additionally, when he's on the brink of death and how he'd prefer to die as a human (which he later changes his mind on and becomes the Final Boss of the series), he flashes back to one of the dead bodies of his family members. I don't think he subverts his care for them in any way, because when they mention he uses rotten human flesh to attract the monsters, it's never stated or implied he used them. I did read scanlations so the official translation might have had some small line difference but I doubt that these points that came up several times would all be different to the point he'd qualify.

Additionally, while Gapsu Seo in my opinion should stay, as his crimes are very unique in the series, his entry falsely states that he killed Dusik, when he actually just attempted to kill him. This might have been a wording error, and it's minor enough that I think I'll just fix it. It's just changing the first line from

• Gapsu Seo is a violently unstable murderer whose first act in the apartment is to defy Joon's orders to befriend Dusik, instead killing him just because he could.

to:

• Gapsu Seo is a violently unstable psychopath whose first act in the apartment is to defy Joon's orders to befriend Dusik, instead attempting to kill him just because he could.

Edited by Orangutans on Jun 29th 2023 at 4:46:00 AM

Slash Joon if that's the case

Lemme ping ~STARCRUSHER99 as it looks like they did both.

I don’t remember that at all but I’ll double check the comic shortly

Edit: the Dusik stuff was indeed a wording error, so I’m down for the fix

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 29th 2023 at 7:46:32 AM

Was the part about Gapsu killing Dusik a typo? He doesn't kill him, he just tries to.

Edit: Sorry for noting that too late.

Edited by Orangutans on Jun 29th 2023 at 4:47:20 AM

Cool, so we can change that. I'll wait until we get word on the other dude.

Apocalypse's shift in characterization started in 2019 and the X of Swords event in 2020 establishes that he had a family that he still cares about. I think enough time has passed that we can make some kind of ruling on him.

The interesting thing about Poccy is that he didn't just get new redeeming qualities in a vacuum - they were part of a fairly massive expansion to his backstory that also includes a decent-sized new supporting cast, including multiple family members that he cares about. Would be kinda hard to Ret-Gone that.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jun 29th 2023 at 6:54:13 AM

Honestly leaning cut to Apocalypse, seems like something that has been thoroughly added to the status quo by this point. Sad to see the X men's biggest CM go, but at least we have pretty much every adaptation of him

Cut Apocalypse and the first Sweet Home guy

It's not entirely unheard of for entire sets of characters to be completely ignored - see for instance the cast of this miniseries, which also gave a very strange Freudian Excuse to Sabretooth that's never been referenced again. But the new Apocalypse-adjacent characters have been a lot better-received than these, so... do whatever you think you need to.

Which version of Apocalypse and where did the cut proposal get posted?

Main 616 version, top of last page

I sadly have to say cut Apocalypse. I will never understand why of all the villains out there he deserved to get redeeming qualities in the form of a family... When he already had a son (Holocaust who is every bit as subtle as his name) whom Apocalypse treated like a tool at best and absolute trash at worst if my memory is correct. Why would he suddenly now care about family?

Edited by ForgoLight on Jun 29th 2023 at 5:16:21 AM

And I will also have to confirm that Joon is a cut. It’s only one line and picture (which is why I missed it), but in the official translation it’s also his family he finds dead, so he’s a cut there as well. Sad to say goodbye to half of my first EP, but at least Gapsu is still good. Good catch Orangutans!

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 29th 2023 at 8:24:15 AM

@ Wet: I'd be willing to hear an EP for Volk, when you EP him on the CM Proposal thread.

Cut Joon and I guess cut Apocalypse also

Alright cut Joon and I guess Apoc?

Okay so Apocalypse joined Okkara after a lifetime of fighting for his life and having to adopt his Social Darwinist outlook out of necessity. He was resigned to give up a lifetime of war once he found peace and a family on Okkara . He loved his family and wanted better for them than he had himself. His wife however agreed but in the opposite direction. She believed the kids only path is through war and conflict in order to toughen them up for more war. In her mind there is no end to the fight. When the Amenthi horde started war with Okarra which split into Krakoa and Arakko, Apocalypse was shown to have to separate from his family by force, as they all viewed him as soft ( yes Apocalypse was considered the mage of mercy). Apocalypse then spent millenia trying to toughen up humanity in his misguided attempt to make them strong enough for the day came to fight the Amenthi and he could reunite with his family. He was relieved when Krakoa was founded because it’s what he was fighting for this whole time. He then set out to reunite with Arakko and his family. He also showed Pet the Dog moments with Rictor teaching him to control his newley amped up powers and taking him under his wing. Once he reunited with his family he found out they had formed a union with Amenth and all he did was All for Nothing. He then fought in the X of Swords tournament and sacrificed his freedom to free his wife from the helm of Annihilation (albeit briefly) when all was said and done, a trade was made, The Amenthi in the form X of Apocalypse wife chose Apocalypse to join her an in return Apocalypse chose The Island of Arakko and its many inhabitants to join with Krakoa on Earth. He then left with his family to live in Amenth.

More recent events Apocalypse spent time on Amenth fighting the Dæmon hordes and was horrified to find out his wife Genesis was offered peace by Annihilation all those years ago in their war with Amenth and couldn’t let go of her ego and refused which let to a millennia of occupation of Arakko as well as the initial separation of the family

That’s as much Info as I have. Maybe write up a separate entry for AOA Apocalypse if you feel it necessary. Sure his world is a divergent from 626. But we haven’t seen that backstory come into play on his world.

Edited by Furygildeman on Jun 29th 2023 at 7:56:40 AM

Honestly, with Apocalypse, while this retcon definitely does cut him, I feel there are just so many Story Arc s with him as a unambiguous CM that the entry should be kept while notifying that it was how he was written before the 2020s.

He got to be one of the biggest C Ms of the Marvel Universe for entire decades, its a bit different from other cases as this is both a shared universe and a long runner.

Honestly, that sounds like a decent compromise. Age of Apocalypse is a iconic storyline that practically defined his characterization as CM for entire decades until 2020

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 29th 2023 at 10:01:57 AM

And it’s also weird that we count those two together when it’s not something we usually do

Also Lighty or Mir since you two have been tackling the show, are either of you gonna give Van Kliess a rewrite? The current could do with some sprucing.

• Van Kleiss is the ruthless dictator of Abysus. Though he uses propaganda to claim he's trying to build a better world for E.V.O.s, in actuality Van Kleiss cares only for his dream of world domination, and nothing for his subordinates. Van Kleiss makes a habit of petrifying E.V.O.s by sucking the nanites out of them, or turning regular people into E.V.O.s to act as muscle for him, not caring that such an action could leave them permanently transformed. In his bid for power Van Kleiss murdered Rex's parents, experimented on his Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds follower to amplify her powers while causing her excruciating pain, and threatened a little girl to force her father to turn the people of New York into his zombie army.