Misused: Were Still Relevant Dammit

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Edited by AGuy on May 14th 2021 at 8:41:24 AM

I'm just.. a guy....

I like the criteria in the list, but I don't know if it's a perfect mnemonic - the "We're" and "Dammit" criteria seems to overlap a lot, for example. I think we can just lay out the criteria sentence by sentence and not worry to much about the specific meaning of the trope name. Something like:

• The work must be a Long Runner, i.e. have previous installments for comparison's sake.
• It must reference pop culture that's seemingly popular among its demographic.
• This reference is not smoothly integrated into the work, whether it is anachronistic for the work's setting, detracts from the plot or characters, or receives a disproportionate amount of attention compared to previous pop culture references in the work.

(I should also note that I really dislike "criteria lists" for tropes because of the confusing mess it caused in the Moral Event Horizon cleanup, and I would like to have this list be as short and simple as possible.)

Edited by mightymewtron on May 12th 2021 at 12:23:00 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

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Edited by AGuy on May 14th 2021 at 8:41:33 AM

I'm just.. a guy....

That police brutality thing brings up a decent point: I think we should limit this to pop culture references. Examples that treat social issues, like LGBT identity or police brutality, as if they're passing trends are probably too subject to ROCEJ. See: that Smithers "gay rights craze" example.

We can cut the "detracted from the story" bit, but I think "disproportionate amount of attention" can be objectively measured. Past episodes having passing references to pop culture while a later episode has a whole plot about Fortnite would indeed stand out. Isn't that basically what your "Dammit" criteria means anyway?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

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Edited by AGuy on May 14th 2021 at 8:41:41 AM

I'm just.. a guy....

I think episodes/quests/etc on LGBT issues, environmental issues, and police brutality that don't otherwise fit with the work in question probably fit better under Very Special Episode (though there's probably overlap in the tropes).

Edited by PhiSat on May 13th 2021 at 1:46:50 PM

Oissu!

Ok, I must ask, very politely:

What the fuck happened?

@A Guy Please don't blank your posts. If you want to retract them, use the strikethrough function.

How does one do that?

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

This is because I made a fairly mild remark about their posts being very long when discussing this troper's behavior in other threads, and as a result they decided to nuke all of their comments, even when I specified that I didn't have a real issue with their posts in this thread.

So now we pretty much have to start over, since they were the only one proposing in-depth definition fixes. Cool cool.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

[[strike:text]] —> text

Vi: Well, it's not like we're getting attacked by a giant wasp spider guardian! | Leif: Never combine those words ever again.

Do we have archives of what they've said? If not, we can always ask them to repeat what they said earlier.

By the way, I thought that one of the original criterias of the trope was "The reference is clearly intended to be something popular by the show's producers, but it's actually already dated" (see for example the meme references in The Powerpuff Girls (2016)).

And this criteria is the reason that all the examples relating to smartphones and social medias always looked off to me: their presence implied that to the average troper, concepts like "owning a smartphone" or "using Facebook" are nothing more than dead fads from 2011-2013. And they aren't.

The best character is always the one-shot disguise.

IDK if they're coming back to this project. I say we just try our best to analyze the definition ourselves until then.

I feel like that should be a factor here if it's not already, as it's easier to recognize when it's simply updating the setting to be more modern or shoehorning in something without any staying power. A lot of people have said that trends don't die as quickly as we think they do, but general consensus among those familiar with memes is that they do have a "shelf life." Very few people make "duck lips" jokes in 2018, hence why it stuck out when The Fairly OddParents! did.

So here are some factors we're discussed that people believe defines WSRD:

• The references clashing with the setting or tone of the work.
• The references being outdated, despite the work treating them as relevant and modern.
• The references getting more attention and being more explicit than previous pop culture references on the show.

Probably more that I'm forgetting, but which of this seems like the most accurate definition? Can we combine them in a way that won't invite misuse?

Edited by mightymewtron on May 14th 2021 at 1:30:26 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I say we either try to call them back here or find out what they said earlier. Preferably both.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on May 14th 2021 at 10:28:37 AM

Exactly. But I'm annoyed when the same reasoning is used for things that are not memes. Like for example if a Were Still Relevant Dammit example is basically "This show produced in 2018 references a 2017 movie", implying that reference jokes are good only if they're referring to older "classic" movies (A Ghostbusters reference in the current day? Good! An Avengers: Infinity War reference in the current day? Eww, that's so dated and cringey!)

Edited by PhantomDusclops92 on May 14th 2021 at 7:32:45 PM

The best character is always the one-shot disguise.

That's a case where I think the tone of the work would be relevant. South Park making explicit references to Marvel movies wouldn't stand out cuz they've always done that. If, IDK, Spongebob namedropped the Marvel movies out of nowhere, that'd stand out cuz they don't usually do that sort of explicit pop culture reference. This is why the Long Runner criteria is crucial: it allows us past installments to compare.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I think we are/were getting similar misuse in Unintentional Period Piece wicks. That's a definition/reason that I could support for this title. Trying to make a pop culture reference or follow current trends, but the "topical" nature of the reference is already passe/outdated by the time it initially airs.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Does it really have to be "dated", or just an obvious and cringey attempt at being "topical"?

@A Guy Please come back to the thread. We liked your criteria and we want to talk with you.

And I think that could make it easier to recognize good and bad entries, because there's some objectivity to a meme originating in one year and then being referenced years later, even when it's no longer in the public zeitgeist. But there's other ways to make an ill-fitting reference that doesn't rely on "outdated" memes and I think those are worth recognizing if we don't let it skew towards pure complaining about any pop culture reference.

Maybe there's potential for a split or something?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Hmm... a split sounds like it might catch at least some of the misuse.

How do you draw a user's attention to a particular post, by the way? Did I do it right?

You use a ~ before their handle. Personally though, I'd give them time before calling them back, considering they seemed quite distraught on ATT.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Alright. Is it possible for mods to view a previous version of a post?

Yeah, Imp, I wouldn't push it with them. Based on the flameout, they aren't in a good state of mind, and I'd rather continue without them than see things get worse, even if it's just an innocent request.

The mods might be able to restore the information, or we'll just have to charge on without them.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Well, does anyone remember what his "mnemonic" was?