Precisely defining Seasonal Rot

Does Seasonal Rot refer exclusively to a single season/installment of a series that is not up to par with the rest (with the implication that the series then went on to recover its quality), or does it also include examples that include multiple installments? The latter, to me, seems like a more gradual version of Jumping the Shark that lacks a single turning point.

The page itself leans towards the former definition. The very first sentence says that the trope is "an installment in any long running series that is widely held to be of notably poorer quality than the other installments", referring to the problematic installment in question as singular. While the next paragraph does mention that it sometimes isn't a temporary dip in quality but turns into a harbinger for the series' decline overall, it notes that this fits better under Jumping the Shark. (That said, I think this statement ignores that Jumping the Shark requires a noticeable shift that serves as a turning point for the series' quality.)

Similarly, Square Peg, Round Trope backs this view up:

Part of the reason I ask is because of the two subpages dedicated to entire series. SeasonalRot.Supernatural names six sequential seasons as suffering from various problems, while SeasonalRot.The Fairly Odd Parents similarly suggests that seasons 7 through 10 are widely seen as an increasingly glaring downturn in quality (though the page is bloated with complaining about other problems with the show). Is this misuse?

Pinball cleanup thread

Foremost we are talking about YMMV subjects, which makes any example a matter of debate and argument.

In the broad sense Seasonal Rot is about progressively weaker stories being told in a serial work, largely because it is trying to emulate or deviate from the more acclaimed stories that came before. Jump the Shark is a singular event that highlights how far a work has deviated from its original premise and quality.

A work that is sufficiently long enough can provide multiple examples of either, because it is possible to still be pretty good even if not as acclaims as what came before. Like going from an A to a C, and a C to an F.

Bumping this primarily in response to this ATT query, which presently leans towards placing Seasonal Rot, the related audience reaction Dork Age, or both on Tropes Needing TRS. I'm inclined to agree, since I'm still having a hard time trying to pin down what makes each of them unique from each other:

• Seasonal Rot, as mentioned before, is split between "a single season/installment that isn't as good as the rest" or "a series that starts going downhill in quality" (as the above post put it).
• Dork Age is a little clearer, primarily referring to works that suffer a downturn in popularity due to badly-received changes to the status quo, but others in the query noted that the definition is excessively broad as written.
• I, personally, would also throw Sequelitis into the mix, because it seems to be exactly the same as the second definition of Seasonal Rot (a series where each successive installment shows a noticeable drop in quality) - though its definition references it exclusively in reference to movies, oddly enough.

Long story short, I feel like something needs to be done about these pages. I'm just not entirely sure what.

Edited by BlueGuy on Jan 5th 2021 at 1:10:47 PM

Pinball cleanup thread

The description of Dork Age implies that it starts off from an intentional change in the franchise's established formula; this is different from Seasonal Rot, which usually comes from unintended changes, like too much reliance on formula, lack of direction, budget or schedule problems, or technical incompetence in general. I believe we should emphasise that. Similarly, it ends either by returning to the status quo ante, or changing again in a way that is more palatable to audiences. This would give a good distinction between Dork Age and Seasonal Rot, the first stemming from a particular decision by the creator, while Seasonal Rot does not have well-defined start and end points.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

How's this for a write-up for Tropes Needing TRS? It would be filed under "Unclear description".

• Seasonal Rot is unclear on whether it is supposed to be about a single season/installment that isn't as good as the rest, or a series that starts going downhill in quality; the latter is redundant to Sequelitis. The related Dork Age focuses on specific decisions that led to a downturn in quality, but it is also poorly defined.

I will also be starting a wick check at the Wick Check Project.

EDIT: Sandbox.Seasonal Rot Dork Age Wick Checks

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Jan 7th 2021 at 7:37:29 AM

I'm back!

I always thought that Dork Age is a defined period (usually in the middle of a series or long-running work) that is bookended by better bits before and after, while Seasonal Rot is for a work that gets worse over time and fails to recover to its original greatness. Jumping the Shark is a clearly defined moment when Seasonal Rot sets in, but Seasonal Rot can happen gradually without being able to pinpoint a specific event that precipitated it.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

And yet I've seen people saying Seasonal Rot is for specific seasons that are bad, which I don't think makes much sense due to the connotations of "rot" indicating a decay. Square Peg, Round Trope lists it as being about a single season, and I don't think that's right.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Well the way I understand the Seasonal Rot/Dork Age debate (without reading verbatim the definitions of both tropes) is:

Seasonal Rot - When a long running series has a dip in quality for the short term (i.e. one album for a group/artist, one season for a show).

Dork Age - When the dip in quality last for several albums/shows.

Sometimes, both of these tropes can overlap each other in major cases (one notable one being Celtic Frost's infamous Hair Metal influenced 1988 album 'Cold Lake').

Also another difference between SR and DA (and YMMV on this) is that generally people can acknowledge the former; but the latter is sometimes ignored.

What say you all?

There's Seasonal Rot Dork Age Wick Checks now, by the by.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 23rd 2021 at 2:01:41 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Based off of the wick check, Dork Age has a problem with ZC Es. As for Seasonal Rot, the most conman usage is an installment in a franchise that's worse than the others.

Regarding Jumping the Shark, that page a) is not marked as YMMV and b) has a boldfaced No Real Life Examples, Please! section warning of Flame Bait before an In-Universe Examples Only example section. On paper, all that only applies to the page itself, but I think people are getting the sense that Jumping the Shark is "definition and in-universe references only" and using Seasonal Rot as a stand-in for the Jumping the Shark entry that is, implicitly, not to be used out-of-universe.

Edited by MorganWick on Mar 25th 2021 at 6:25:18 AM

I always thought Seasonal Rot was a Supertrope for when a franchise dips in quality. I thought Dork Age was a sub-trope for when that dip is temporary, and Jumping the Shark was for when the rot signals a permanent decline in quality.