Values Dissonance/Resonance Cleanup

I don't think people disliked the romance that much, given the outcry against Li Shang's removal from the 2020 movie. If it was a thing in the 2000s, then I missed it, but it's not a thing now for sure.

Nah, I remember people being fine with it or indifferent at worst. Whatever actual negativity had to do with the second movie being bad in general.

This was recently added to King of the Hill

• Values Dissonance: "How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love the Alamo". With the subject of school textbooks often being rewritten for various reasons (especially with cases whitewashing the horrors of slavery), Hank's plight in the episode feels more like small-potatoes in the overall grand scheme of things, especially due to how the Alamo is now being seen as a battle about slavery that's been warped by nationalistic talking points.

Right off the bat, the episode was aired in 2004, so it fails the 20 year rule. The rest seems like someone trying to shoehorn later issues into an unrelated show.

Similarly,

• Values Resonance: In "That's What She Said", Hank's new coworker Rich makes annoyingly crass and inappropriate remarks and plays practical jokes at work, and Hank's coworkers jump on the bandwagon. Hank finally puts a stop to it by informing his boss about Rich's jokes going too far and threatening to quit his job if things don't change. This becomes more relevant 13 years after the episode's airing, when the #MeToo and #TimesUp movements challenged how toxic work behavior, especially when it involves sexual harassment, misconduct, and intimidation, is treated.

This episode also aired in 2004, so it also fails the 20 year rule. It seems like it's just an excuse to mention MeToo.

" "Don't be a sucker" was produced by the US Department of Defence. It's an anti-racism and anti-fascism clip that debunks racism and religious intolerance, explaining how it leads to division. The clip then goes on to explain how intolerant speech led to the rise of Nazi Germany, The Holocaust and WW2 and how normalizing hatred of minorities could cause the same to happen in the USA one day. The clip was made in 1947. The PSA was largely forgotten up until the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlotteville, Virginia in 2017 (alongside the wider context of the Trump Administration) made it viral and exposed how the 1947 message was just as relevant in modern day politics with the return of far-right ideology."

My apologies for the Edit War and improper Troper etiquette. But the video is still very important and relevant to the context of the trope and shouldn't be cut wholesale.

That being said, I must voice respectful dissent. There is a very real problem with the rise of right wing extremism in recent days that cannot be denied, and maybe linking it to Donald Trump is too far-fetched for the purpose of TV Tropes, or at least bad form, but the wider issues should not be ignored because they're too "political". This attitude breeds complacency and enables far right extremism and violence.

I will still abide by the ROCEJ so don't worry, I won't push this into the article proper.

Thank you for your response.

TV Tropes is about tropes in works and (for example) how they are used to craft a narrative. It is not a political soapbox, including when terms like "far-right" (which I feel is turning into a synonym for "something I don't like") are bandied around. And actual far-right content, except maybe fictitious works, is generally not welcome here.

I'll admit, VR is... a very hot-button topic, especially with all the soapboxing from all over (which are often ROCEJ-ed away, but frequently creep up), and there are times when I wish it received an Example Sectionectomy.

Pointed out on ROCEJ cleanup thread. From The Road to El Dorado

• Values Dissonance: While it still has a strong fan following, the movie has come under criticism in the 2020s for various reasons, such as the fact that a large portion of the plot surrounds around two white men fooling a group Native Americans into believing that they're Gods, as well as the blatant sexualization of its lead woman of color. Just how bad these aspects are, and if it overlaps the positives of the movie, varies a great deal from viewer to viewer. And we'll leave it at that.

Sounds like a personal opinion.

Isn't the film praised for being a subversion of the Mighty Whitey trope? Since the two Caucasians are portrayed as dimwitted and clueless compared to the smarter Native characters, some of which (like the chief) are quickly able to figure out they aren't gods, but just go along with it.

I sarcastically asked for a source for that opinion that didn’t come from Lily Orchard. I agree that it otherwise sounds like a personal opinion. Also I agree that “Don’t be a sucker” should be kept.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Dec 10th 2021 at 10:18:50 AM

so is the consensus to cut or keep? also, it seems to contain a rocej sinkhole, so that should definitely be cut

Edited by namra on Dec 10th 2021 at 9:15:04 AM

I'm inclined to cut, both for being thinly-veiled opinion and for all the weasel words.

So you don't think a video made in 1947 that heavily denounces racism and prejudice is not VR?

I think I agree with Ysenir here. The entry is actually pretty objective, explaining that an old anti-fascist PSA went viral in response to a rally that was pretty explicitly a Nazi rally. The only thing that might be worth cutting is the parenthetical about the Trump administration, because the Charlottesville rally was openly alt-right.

Was that directed at me? Because by that point, the discussion had moved on to the entry on The Road to El Dorado, which was also being discussed in the ROCEJ thread, where the consensus was that it was an attempt to skirt the citation rule for Unfortunate Implications, and has since been cut.

Also, the way you worded that is a rather insulting strawman false dichotomy.

But if the entry is to stay, it needs to be rewritten.

They were talking about this.

What the hell are you guys talking about.

Far-right terror groups have killed more people in the 20 years since 9/11 than even Jihadists in the US

Edited by miraculous on Dec 14th 2021 at 3:07:20 AM

That, and it also fails to account for the less outright destructive issues they cause. A lot of far right people are better at spreading panic and propaganda than doing shit like planting bombs, but that doesn't make the ideology any less dangerous.

is that entry implying that hatred of minorities is now normalized in the US? Might just be how it's phrased though.

Maybe add the part about the clip becoming viral after the Charolettetown rally too:

• In 1947, the PSA "Don't be a sucker" was produced by the US Department of Defense. It debunks racism and religious intolerance, explaining how it leads to division, and also explains how intolerant speech led to the rise of Nazi Germany, The Holocaust and WW2 and how normalizing hatred of minorities could cause the same to happen in the USA one day. The clip would go on to become viral due to how relevant it was after certain incidents came up after the 2016 US election (e.g. the 2017 Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally).

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 14th 2021 at 7:28:58 AM

That probably fits better if you or someone else wants to put it in.

I'm still trying to figure out how to phrase the part "how normalizing hatred of minorities could cause the same to happen in the USA one day." without making it come off like that's the case today.

But yeah, I'll put it back in once I figure that part out.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Dec 14th 2021 at 10:25:39 AM

Isn’t that still the norm today? Last year we had fucking riots because of racial injustice.

The degree to which racism is accepted is a hot topic, but the point is that there are still groups in America that explicitly praise racism. Granted, this was kind of always the case, but the fact that it never fully went away makes the message indeed still resonate.

Right. Saying it's "becoming normalized" has it backwards- racism was the norm back then. Today, what's finally becoming more normalized is anti-racism and tolerance, and there's still a lot of places where racism is the norm.