Not Thriving: Series Minus Series Core

According to this post in the ZCE thread:

I will agree with that poster—not to mention that there are only 13 wicks to that page.

My only recommended action is to send this to the Trope Launch Pad to make it much more understandable.

Though we are currently backlogged, this looks simple enough, so opened.

Sending to TLP is a viable option.

Sending back. Although the original proposal 's author is long gone, meaning someone else will have to adopt it to make it viable.

How big would we expect this page to get? It feels like the main source of wicks would be derivative fan works, and even among fanworks this seems a bit of a niche genre.

(I also dispute the ZCE to some extent; while it would be nice for the example of "SpongeBob minus SpongeBob" to explain how the tone of the series changes without the main character, there's enough there to already determine why it's an example.)

Send back.

Send back. I imagine it could be wicked on Laconic.The Conners, which currently links to WebComic.Garfield Minus Garfield in its stead.

Cut. Not even a trope. Too rare.

If you have a look at the example section, you'll see there are many examples. Some tropes are more narrow than others, and that's fine. Clearly there is a pattern with meaning. See Too Rare to Trope.

The wicks are a problem, though. It can't be cross-wicked properly because the derivative works themselves don't seem to have a page. For example we have a page for Peanuts, but not for Peanuts Minus Snoopy, nor for Lucy Peanuts.

In part, it's also Trivia for the original work. Not trivia-trivia, because it's clearly one of Adaptation Tropes or related to Spin-Off, but it's something that could be mentioned in work description so at least we could get some cross-wicking.

Would that mean it's gonna be unlaunched, or would the page stay up on the wiki at the same time?

Send back to TLP. This is common enough to trope, but a lot of the examples are ZCEs and it needs more time to develop.

I agree with sending this back to TLP. I do think this is a trope, while the page for it (due to things like the aforementioned context issues and underperformance) needs work.

Bump. I think we have a tentative agreement to send it back to TLP.

I'm fine with it, so long as it doesn't end up like so many other TRS-induced TLP threads and just get immediately abandoned. It happens a lot, and it's quite annoying.

We're close to the end of the year, so we should definitely recreate this in TLP.

It is.

AmourMitts, you're the OP who opened this TRS. Would you be willing to run it through TLP as well? I promise I'll try to contribute — TLP is actually my favourite thing on this wiki.

Though the key problem with this trope is lack of examples that can be cross-wicked. I have no extra examples at the moment, and I doubt I'll come up with more. It would also help if we got tropers setting up pages for the the spin-offs.

I'm not active on TLP, but I am active on TRS, and I can confirm that. At least two starred threads from this year stayed open for months with no unfinished business other than unlaunched TLP drafts. (I don't know if they ended up getting launched since then; the TRS threads were closed simply to clear up space in the TRS backlog, since further discussion could take place on TLP instead.)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 20th 2019 at 3:25:07 AM

With all the things 'broken' in TLP... it might be actually useful to tag drafts that are created as part of TRS efforts. Lots of the responsibility is on the trope sponsor who writes the draft, but if the draft misses feedback, there's not much that can be done about it (except keep null-editing or bumping it with hopes someone will notice it eventually and say something, anything about it).

My experience with TLP drafts that started with TRS is actually very good. I feel like people approved of the idea for a trope more quickly because it was clear the idea has already been okayed elsewhere by other tropers.

Eh, my main concern stems from the poor treatment of the Spontaneous Reverb draft, created as per TRS effort but then almost immediately abandoned by everyone involved in the TRS discussion. This left the people at the TLP to have to deal with it, but nobody wanted to, and to this day the draft still has a pitiful amount of examples and 4 bombs. It never got a sponsor, and everyone who actually contributed to it had nothing to do with the TRS, so the most we could do was to expand the ZCEs we were handed.

I've got no problem having this trope go to the TLP, but if it does, the TRS community needs to take some responsibility for getting it launched, not just hand it off to the people with no interest in working on it without actually bothering to fix any of the issues from the original page. The TLP already has enough nonsense going on, without the TRS dumping drafts that nobody on the TRS thread actually plans to sponsor or curate or even check up on once in a while.

Just... don't make the people on the TLP do all the work for you, if you're going to make a draft. This has been a PSA.

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 21st 2019 at 5:46:15 AM

I understand the sentiment, though I wouldn't want to separate tropers in subgroups. I want to believe we are all members of one community. :-) One of our goals is no doubt to have neat, well-defined pages with as little misuse as possible.

That's getting off-topic, so it's in folder. This trope Series Minus Series Core seems like a relatively easy fix, we just need that volunteer for TLP. ;-) [fingers crossed]

Edited by XFllo on Dec 21st 2019 at 12:27:57 PM

One last point though: You're right that we're all "one big community", though my point was that the tropers who have nothing to do with the TRS decision shouldn't have been the ones forced to work on the TLP draft once it was made with no assistance from the people who voted to make the damn thing (save for eroock, who helped out on the draft and made the TRS thread). "TRS Community" and "TLP Community" was just an easier way to say "the people who predominantly work in the TRS" and "the people who predominantly work in the TLP".

But yeah, send it back to TLP, this trope does need it.

I really just kinda had this rant bottled up though. With the actual TRS thread for Spontaneous Reverb being closed after the draft was made, I didn't really have anywhere to voice my frustration with how it was handled while also speaking to the people behind the draft's creation and not just, like, complaining on ATT or something. I don't want threads to stay open forever, but it would've been helpful if I had somewhere I could go and complain about the incomplete draft we were given and the lack of care from the people who made it exist. But I didn't have that, and so the draft is still neglected.

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 21st 2019 at 2:47:25 PM

It's the New Year's Purge already, and it looks like we're unanimous for sending this to TLP. Good enough?

Yes, the consensus is clear.

~Amour Mitts, will you start the TLP draft? Or do you want somebody else to do it instead?

(~Tropers/Amour Mitts)

Sorry, I don't have the time to recreate this trope in TLP myself.

That's disappointing.

Then I feel I have to ask... why did you start this thread in the first place? It's the same like with creating work pages — somebody has to do the work.

Well, let's hope someone volunteers soon.

Edited by XFllo on Jan 9th 2020 at 12:33:31 PM

Fine... I'll do it myself.

UPDATE: Now it's done.

Edited by AmourMitts on Jan 9th 2020 at 7:30:10 AM

Cool. Cool cool cool.

[I just wanted to post that that post probably came off as too pushy or complain-y. I was tired and irritated. So... I'm sorry.]