OK, here's where this thread is standing, with the unlocking:
Given the widespread backlash and complaining about certain aspects of the work (i.e. Dexit), we wanted to communicate very clearly what we are not willing to put up with: prolonged, circular complaining (or wonking).
Of course, with a controversial subject that has a large impact on the gameplay, Dexit is in one of those areas where there it may be on-topic to discuss it, but the nature of that discussion can wildly vary. As has been said elsewhere, we ix-nayed discussion of Dexit entirely because it never seemed to happen without devolving into that kind of complaining.
However, we're willing to unlock the thread after this 3-day cooldown period because the Pokemon General thread has been stable enough. And -
Can I discuss Dexit?
Yes. But if there is prolonged wonking on it, the thread just becomes an echo chamber of complaints and we do not like that. No one likes that. The same rules as ever apply. Be a constructive, healthy space. Have conversations about what you like, and what you don't like, but the thread should not get locked into a series of bitter complaints.
If you have questions or concerns about mod implementation or action, we have a thread for that here
.
Alright? Thank you all for waiting this out. I hope we're all good now.
Edited by nombretomado on Nov 18th 2019 at 5:49:02 AM
Eclipse the Moon
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
x5
"Trading over a Grossley overlevelled Pokemon straight to the new game" didn't make them restrict the Pokemon availability choices in ORAS or U/SM despite the fact you could get your aces into the new game once you beat the first gym.
Wait is that seriously the reason they gave? Sheesh that's as inane as the whole "We can't have friend online co-op in Mario Maker 2 because leader boards" or "You can't back up your Pokémon or Splatoon saves because Cheaters."
Edited by PippingFool on Jun 11th 2019 at 11:51:18 PM
I'm having to learn to pay the price
☆♥☆
The issue isn't exactly about whether the Pokemon are available to use in the main game. If that was the case, then people would be upset about the any of the games having anything less than every species available during the main story. On that same note, it's not really about actually using the transferred Pokemon during the story. I'm sure some people do that, but it's less about using the Pokemon from a gameplay standpoint, and more that there's people that keep using old Pokemon from an emotional standpoint.
And that's the issue, that there's a lot of people who get emotionally invested over specific Pokemon they have in a game, and in the effort they put into collecting and training Pokemon, and there was a lot of backlash back in Gen III when people couldn't take their Pokemon from Gens I and II into it. Game Freak has since basically promised that they'll make sure every future Pokemon game has every Pokemon in it and is compatible with the previous game so that you can keep bringing those Pokemon you're attached to or spent a lot of effort on into every new, current game.
This is pretty much reneging on 15 years of promises and practice for vague, impossible to decipher reasons. It's not clear how many Pokemon are going to be available in the new games, but it's likely around half the old Pokemon won't make the cut. That's a lot of people's favorite Pokemon that they won't be able to be taken into the new games, and interact with the new features, like they've been able to for the past 15 or so years.
Or just let people ignore Pokemon Bank/Home if they so desperately want to only use native Pokemon. Let the rest of us have the option to play as we please.
(Or enforce a limit/restriction on migration to prevent serious cases of overpoweredness...)
Edited by RainingMetal on Jun 11th 2019 at 6:52:17 AM
Eclipse the Moon
Again. The issue isn't not having all the Pokemon in the main dex or having a proper Nat Dex even.
It's not having the ability to transfer non Galar Pokémon at all.
And people generally don't like it when you take away previous freedoms. Especially ones related to self expression like player customization and curating your teams to your liking.
Again, one of the big reasons RSE was so loathed back in the day was because of the lack of backwards compatibility with the Gameboy and Gameboy Colour games. GF is almost certainly aware this is a touchy subject for a lot of fans and the Bank and Home presentations seemed to hammer home "Infrastructure so you always have your favorite Pokemon with you in New Places."
Edited by PippingFool on Jun 11th 2019 at 11:59:00 PM
I'm having to learn to pay the price
Oh, you can transfer Pokemon. But only of select species.
That early gen moment of seeing what your favourites got? Well, perhaps your favorite isn't even in the game, because Masuda decided to fuck people over.
Japan is livid, for the record.
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
I am MAD. I am FUMING. I am IRATE. I am FURIOUS. I am INFURIATED. I am PISSED. THE. FUCK. OFF!
It made me mad that I couldn't transfer over Cosplay Pikachu out of ORAS, and Cosplay Pikachu was just a cute, dumb gimmick! This is on a whole 'nother level, and I am ENRAGED.
Face me now, Bitch!
As I said before, I myself am not upset, as I prefer to have a clean slate with each game, but I can see why some are.
At the very least, it seems the backlash is big enough that Nintendo and game freak are taking notice, as someone said before that a tweet regarding this was taken down.
Watch Symphogear
I'm with Hashil. We need to take TPC at their word when they say that we aren't getting non-Galardex Pokemon in Sword & Shield. A patch for any omissions would be so large, that it would not be feasible. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if there's an exception for the Kantodex, given that they were already on the Switch, but I'm not holding my breath, much less for the rest.
Given what Rob said about TPC saying that Dynamax will be replacing Z moves and Mega Evolution, and how I already believed the former with the latter easily lockable, I can see this, in concert with LGPE, as a Soft Reboot of the game mechanics... or I could if it wasn't for Dynamax. "Meet the new boss..."
What I can also see are the games that Hashil described all having their own exclusive dexes that you would be unable to trade between; save "Gun" if they make that.note They may have the other models done earlier, but I can see GF holding off on releasing the ones not related to the 2020 games prior to 2021, when they, in addition to releasing whichever of LGMS and RDLP wasn't released in 2020, they also release the Pokémon Stadium successor that Kayube posited.
That is, Home would be the only way to connect SwSh, LGMS, and RDLP to each other, let alone Gen 7.note And PS8 would be the only way to have a mixed team.
Then again, what's to say that Home won't already have this ability?note Otherwise, what's the point of transferring the Bank mons?
Now, to account for this, TPCi needs to prepare to have 2 VGC Tournaments in 2020, (SwSh and whatever game pair comes out that year,) and 2 in 2021 (the other pair plus Home "Open", with the latter continuing in subsequent years).
Conversely, GF probably needs to take a 5-year hiatus from the main series in 2021 with Gen 9 starting in 2026, assuming Nintendo still makes hardware at that time. Spinoffs may be better for the brand at this point, anyway, Pokémon Adventures needs the time to catch up, and the Anime can make do with Filler Seasons, especially with the non-tradability; gotta have full-team practice sometime, right?note
Eclipse the Moon
What was the tweet? Was the a screencap of it?
Edited by PippingFool on Jun 12th 2019 at 12:00:33 AM
I'm having to learn to pay the price
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I think that, if we are resorting to caps-locked rants, it would be a good idea for everyone to calm down.
It is, after all, just a video game.
Oh God! Natural light!
Stuff:
- Yamper sure is a corgi. Hope this means we'll get to see the queen
- Impidimp is kinda bland, but looks like it probably has an evo
- I think they're using the water gym because it's the early one that plays traditionally. The others in the leak were much weirder
- Nessa... I'd been thinking they might tone the sexiness down for this gen, but I guess not
- The levels are clearly modified, so I hope the number of mons is as well. Leaders should have more than two
- Cut compatibility:
- This doesn't really matter to me since I've never transferred
- It's really weird that this is happening at the same time as Home?
- The rest of the dex probably isn't getting patched in. My understanding is that the way the games are coded would make that difficult
- I'm going to say that this is probably a case of cutting corners. Ohmori's apparent dislike of non-regional pokemon likely only resulted in this being the corners cut
- While the models aren't new, it is quite possible that converting them to work on the new hardware is more time-intensive than may be expected
Dynamax replacing Megas is a load of bollocks that a lot of people won't like...
Industrious Incisors
On one hand, I don’t trust Game Freak to be in touch with the fanbase to realize action needs taken. On the other hand, Nintendo has shown themselves to be able to take a hint, as recently as with Super Mario Maker 2. So maybe their higher ups can get the point across to Game Freak’s higher-ups.
SoundCloud
Face me now, Bitch!
@Karkat The Dalek: agreed.
Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Jun 11th 2019 at 10:03:29 AM
Watch Symphogear
☆♥☆
There shouldn't be anything preventing them from patching in new Pokemon. The 3DS games had the issue where they bundled all the Pokemon models up into one large file, meaning patching in a new Pokemon would mean redownloading every Pokemon model in the game. The 3DS games shouldn't have been programmed like that in the first place, but Game Freak didn't think ahead. There's less reason they should be making the same mistake on what's presumably a new engine.
For the record, I tend to rebreed stuff in the newer games; the stuff I transfer is mostly so I don't start from zero.
The issue is lacking SPECIES. USUM lacked dex entries for HALF the Dex, so expect HUNDREDS of species not being present, because Game Freak has vapor for brains.
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
This was the ONE THING. This was the ONE CONCRETE THING that you could point to and say "this is why Pokemon is the biggest 'mons game". That Pokemon, unlike all other 'mons games, actually cared about its 'mons, never cut any, and allowed you to bring your whole collection of 'mons from one game to the next.
EVERY OTHER 'mons game has a shifting roster, they cut some here or there with every new installment, and they almost never let you transfer over your 'mons to the next game, never ALL of them. This was the ONE THING that Pokemon inarguably had over EVERY OTHER 'mons game. This is the SINGLE MOST UNIQUE AND IMPORTANT feature in this franchise!
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Okay, really, PMC, I honestly do think you should try to calm down a little.
Oh God! Natural light!
There shouldn't be anything preventing them from patching in new Pokemon. The 3DS games had the issue where they bundled all the Pokemon models up into one large file, meaning patching in a new Pokemon would mean redownloading every Pokemon model in the game. The 3DS games shouldn't have been programmed like that in the first place, but Game Freak didn't think ahead. There's less reason they should be making the same mistake on what's presumably a new engine.
You're significantly more optimistic about Gamefreak's capacity for learning than I am
Eclipse the Moon
Another reason why "The don't want you to blast through the game with your Lv 100 Greninja" excuse doesn't work: SWSH are coming out in Nov, Home in the early months next year. By the time Home comes out everyone who bought the game in the only Time period big companies care about (First few weeks/month of sales) would have trounced the game by then with their new faves.
I'm having to learn to pay the price
Well, the most positive thing I can say about this is that I won't be the only one suffering for a change.
Really, am I the only one adamant on starting each game with shiny pokemon I've prepared to make for each adventure? Is it a crime for me to start off my adventures in Galar with a shiny Mimikyu?
If they were dead set on preventing players from cheesing the main game, they could just put in more reasonable restrictions on who can be transferred. No level 100s or instate some other level cap, and no legendaries until they say so.
Edited by RainingMetal on Jun 11th 2019 at 7:16:01 AM
☆♥☆
Eh. I liked megas as a concept, but I didn't like how they trivialized the already rather easy single-player story (same as z-moves, really). They were always available, meaning you always had a "delete threat" button whenever something came close to challenging you. I distinctly remember sweeping my rival's entire team with a Mega Gengar that was three levels lower than theirs. Oh sure, you don't have to use them, but I personally believe it is not the player's job to balance the game.
Dynamax, on the other hand, is available only for Gym Battles, Raids and (presumably) story bosses, just for that extra little boss-fight "oomph". In that sense alone, I consider it an improvement.
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I certainly don't think it's a crime to want to do that sort of thing. I will say, however, that it does feel like a fairly minor thing to get hung up over.
Oh God! Natural light!
Fucking BALANCE was one of their supposed "reasons". Fucking BALANCE. Pokemon has NEVER been balanced, and Pokemon will never BE balanced, so that's a crock of shit right there! Even if they really wanted to balance competitive Pokemon, EXCLUDING AT LEAST HALF OF ALL POKEMON IS A FUCKING STUPID WAY TO DO IT!
You know what's a quick and easy solution to wanting a balanced Pokemon game? MAKE OFFICIAL TOURNAMENTS ONLY ALLOW GALAR POKEMON. You know, LIKE THEY HAVE DONE PREVIOUSLY!