RWBY Spoilers Thread

So much for Will Scarlatina then.

We already have Will Scarlet, with Velvets dad in the Book.

Also, the opening, at the 'Never happy ever again'.

I knew this volume was gonna be dark but it looks like they're going to Go full evangelion on us.

Edited by Snoketrope on Nov 7th 2020 at 12:01:08 PM

I 'd you already.

We can safely agree that calling Ironwood "scared" is his Berserk Button, right?

I have to wonder id Ruby's character arc this volume, is going to be her becoming fed up with taking everyone else's shit. And I don't mean that as a negative development for her, but more another step on her path of growing more assertive.

Oh man, what a roller coaster.

Our first hints of Cinder's past, and how that fuels her to the point she's obsessively scratching the pilot's chair at the memory. Neo is realizing she made a HUGE MISTAKE, and Cinder keeps screwing her over. I suspect sooner or later, Neo is going to probably Screw This, I'm Outta Here on this mess. Everyone makes bad fashion choices, and Emerald gets no love. Also nice to get confirmation that Salem intends for Cinder to be a "vessel for the Maidens". So she is indeed gathering all the powers into a single person, for her own purpose.

Oscar, Oscar why are you not telling people about Ozpin? I'm pretty sure not talking to each other was how we all ended up in this position. (And of course, notice everyone that lives in the crater slums are Faunus.)

The team is having serious tensions, with Sister v Sister and Renora tension. But Jaune provides the balance to everything, and tries to bring everyone together. (And OF COURSE the only way to launch Amity is with Ironwood's personal permission.)

Speaking of Ironwood, oh boy. There's a lot to take in, starting with his manipulative ltitle "I'm worried about you Penny" to making it clear he intends to use Atlas as an Ark for humanity and intends to leave the poor to die. And to prove how far he's gone, he straight-up executes Council Sleet for talking back to him. I admit, I gasped out loud at that move. I did not expect him to just start killing people so openly.

Like you said, Rebel, I am very suspicious about the metal plate. As I've discussed with the Science! Revival theory, we have the entire grand plot driven by Salem's attempt to bring Ozma back. But it seems very much in line with the direction Ironwood has been going, toying with Aura Transfer and Penny's creation and his own body repeatedly being altered/replaced.

So our teams are formed, with tensions at their highest. The Happy Huntresses are taking no shit and getting things done, while Salem is leisurely closing in on them all.

Loving the new opening.

Yeah that opening makes it REALLY clear this is not going to be a happy volume. Let's see who is going to die.


I meanwhile pictured Ironwood doing literally this to show us the point he's at.


"Some may question my right to destroy a world of ten billion souls, but those who truly understand realize that I have no right to let them live, no sacrifice too great, no treachery too small."


Now, I would very much prefer for Ironwood to be Wrong Genre Savvy rather than just plain stupid, thinking he's in a bleak and hopeless Grimdark setting (hence the 40k quote) where the only way to fight monsters is to become one yourself, when in fact he's in a Hope Punk setting.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 7th 2020 at 5:02:29 AM

Yeah, Ironwood is too far gone for a simple Heel–Face Turn anymore. At this point, he either dies a villain, or he'll get a Redemption Equals Death. He's got too much blood on his hands, namely by openly killing people. The only reason shooting Oscar didn't send him over it was because Oscar survived and Ironwood didn't even think it killed him. But this? Killing Sleet in cold blood when he had no need to since Martial Law was already in effect? I think this is what officially sent Ironwood past the Moral Event Horizon.

Does anyone think the Staff has a spirit as well? The intro showed it producing the same blue smoke as the Lamp when summoning Jinn.

I had a thought like that cross my mind, but I think it's more just representative of what the energy looks like. The Lamp having a spirit made sense since its the archetypical Genie in a Bottle, but the Staff having a spirit? Unless its based off of Merlin or Nimue, I don't see why they'd give the Staff a spirit.

I'll say, I'm not sure how I feel about Ironwood's little gun stunt.

On one hand, it's a very effective tone-setter for the volume (further enhanced by the opening) and there's no better way of showing off a good man's downfall than to do such openly villainous things.

On the other, any point Ironwood might have had is now null and void, and the protagonists get to be right at no cost. We had these long-winded discussions about the kids's approach to the crisis vs. Ironwood's, how both of these have upsides and downsides and how the conflict between both parties stems from being unable to put them together (on top of Ironwood's increasingly paranoid and authoritarian tendencies).

Yes, the signs were all there from the beginning, but Ironwood was sympathetic enough that we could make a discussion of it. Him murdering Sleet in cold blood without even blinking puts a firm kibosh on that. Hell, even the Ace Ops were taken off guard by how callous that was.

I mean, the directors commentary for Volume 7 made it pretty clear Ironwood is not supposed to be seen as a good guy when he declares Martial Law, that at that point he was a villain. You could argue by that point it was Villain Has a Point, but the people thinking Ironwood was still a good guy and it was a case of Good vs. Good were ultimately applying Draco in Leather Pants to him.

Given how last Volume had a really upbeat song about how it's awesome to trust others and the show proper was one of the darker volumes where the lack of trust is what set people apart, I'm not sure if this new opening will be the "foreshadowing to a dark story" like When It Falls did.

I'd imagine it having a spirit since the lamp had a spirit, and it would become one final defense of the relics if the wrong hands get them. Hell even make it to be a defense system like The Moment where the relic judges the holder to try and persuade them not to use it for evil.

@Fergard: I wouldn't have an issue with it if they lead us along and let Ironwood have some victories (at a horrific moral and human cost), and make the characters start questioning whether maybe The Extremist Was Right, but pull themselves together and prove him (and Salem) wrong in the end.


Honestly, that's why I hope Ironwood lives to see himself proven wrong instead of being killed unceremoniously. It would be so cathartic for the protagonists to demonstrate that all the people he's sacrificed and all the lines he crossed were for nothing and just...give up and go quietly, a broken man.


I mean this is the edgiest OST since volume 3, and the set up is there for things to end in catastrophe.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 7th 2020 at 5:23:12 AM

In regards to the relics having spirits or more specificly the relics being sentient beings. I'ms still holding on to my "The Silver Eyed Warriors are the Relic of Choice" theory.

For awhile Ive been of the Mindset that James was just fully wrong.

Namely the point of The Atlesean side of things is displaying authoritarianism as not merely amoral, but also Illogical and Inefficent. And virtually everything that goes Wrong in Volume 7 can be tied to James screwing up and having a Never My Fault complex about it.

He's still sympathetic, but not in the sense that he has a point, rather he's sympathetic cause he desperately wants to help out but cant get his head out of his ass.

Someone elsewhere pointed out how essentially, these things have been building with Ironwood all along. But....we've primarily had a sympathetic viewpoint until now. The things he did were acceptable, because he was on the heroes' side and most of the time it was in defense of them.

But the seeds were already there, seeing how he is a man that turns so readily on others while justifying it to himself. He's really, REALLY a protagonist of a Classical Tragedy — a great man, with grand dreams and goals, he is slowly brought low by his own hubris and flaws. He's in full Sunk Cost Fallacy at this point, with "I will do whatever it takes" becoming his Madness Mantra. He's just pushing himself further and further down these horrible paths, in the belief it's literally the only way to save anything.

I think you nailed it with him being Wrong Genre Savvy, he really believes this is a dark and hopeless story. And at this point, the people in Atlas are literally the only ones he can save from a literal End of the World. As the opening states, "Hope has no place here". He has no Hope, he believes this is already over and all he can do is try to save one city so there will be something left.

It's really quite horrifying and tragic, and in many ways shows exactly what Ozpin was so afraid of all along.

I've discussed before my concerns about Ironwood lacking a true support structure, and here we have it proven again. He straight-up murders Councilman Sleet in front of them, but Winter and the Ace-Ops are still going to follow him. All along, these are people that have blindly followed him when he desperately needed people to stomp on the brakes like....months ago. At least.

I think what makes Ironwood particularly interesting is that well, there are certain settings, one in particular where he'd be the "Good Guy", and the heroes would be idealistic idiots who will get everyone killed if they have their way. He all but says as much to Ruby when he tells her whatever happens will be on her hands.


It's also why I think the most fitting fate for him is to live to be proven wrong instead of dying; my main issue isn't that he's gone soaring off the slippery slope, it's that, at least so far, the show hasn't really earned that kind of character arc; I WANT the show to make the characters (and the audience) question whether he's right, at this point that seems unlikely.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 7th 2020 at 5:52:26 AM

I think at the very least Ruby might question if the situation might be all her fault after all? And of course weather the cynics are right.

With several other characters (ironically ones who are more to blame than her) blaming her for things that are going down on her and Ruby's tendencies to just sit there and take it when ever others give her shit, I can see it happening.

The big problem there however, is that it basically resets and rehashes her development from V6.

Anyway I think overall tone this Volume does highlight a big fault of the show in my opinion. RWBY is meant to be a hope punk show and it's fine for that kind of show to have darker story elements and villain wins and all that jazz, but the ratio tips a bit to far in that direction for the kind of story RWBY is trying to be.

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 7th 2020 at 3:30:17 AM

The way the show goes involves the world really sucking and being unfair yet refusing to give up into Cynicism, basically like how things should be in the real world. A vytal aspect of that is of course things going really wrong and sucking.

Basically one of its core themes is Silly Rabbit, Cynicism Is for Losers!.

Also somebody pointed out how Penny in that one group shot of the team facing Threats has Penny facing the opposite direction of them....implyng she's one of the threats they'll be facing.

Put that in perspective with her saying how 'Maybe we should give the lamp to Salem'.

I mean, the problem is the show hasn't sold us that things are really bleak and dire. Partially because the Grimm have always been kind of a joke.

...She's not shown fighting them though when Cinder walks past. She's shown right behind Oscar fighting alongside the others. And neither Ruby nor Yang seem bothered by her turning to face them.

I would argue the show has hammered home things being bleak or dire. But they did in a way that undermines the intended message.

The main villain group are effectively invincible and anytime it looks like the heroes get a leg up on them, it get's nullified.

Ruby and pals end up coming off like a bunch of losers who can't accomplish anything and their one actual victory over the greater threat was effectively handed to them and then got rendered moot in the grand scheme of things anyway.

The only real lasting thing is that Cinder's humiliations stick with her and directly cause a decline in her sanity and effectiveness.

Anyway if we go by the opening and assume we will have another fall of Beacon situation. That's effectively eight years of the heroes failing. I'm sure they will get their win back in V9 (and hopefully handle the win better than V5 did) given how it and V8 are intended to be two half's of the same whole, but I think it could be too little to late at that point. I'm sure it would come off as a lot better when viewed back to back as a whole. But it get's long in the tooth when it's taken nearly a decade to get to this point.

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on Nov 7th 2020 at 4:14:15 AM

I've said it to a few others but, it just me or do Emerald and Mercuries new outfits look a tad, Music Video-ish?