Infinity War spoiler thread

Groot.

Sorry.

That does remind me how the ones who got dusted are the ones likely to be brought back and live, while the ones that didn't are the ones likely to die for real.

For instance, I'd be surprised if Tony doesn't die for real in Avengers 4.

Either him or Steve. I'm guessing Steve, mostly because Chris Evans will likely want to rest after the role, and because his character arc is more likely to experience closure.

I'm guessing Tony, because his character arc is pretty much finished while Steve's isn't. Plus, considering what is currently going on in the US, Steve is the perfect character for some pointed commentary and I am ready to be that Chris Evans would be game for this.

I have a really bad feeling that they'll Take a Third Option and kill them both.

At this point I'll take the popular opinion of being fine with killing off both Tony and Steve. Otherwise, I'm not sure who else I'd kill off for good that wasn't already killed in IW. I guess it'd be interesting to kill off the Hulk but not Bruce if they find a way. Thor finally became awesome in Ragnarok and IW so I'd like him to stay. I'm indifferent to Natasha and Clint though I know the former has her own movie in the works so it'd be pretty weird to kill her, I suppose. Clint is probably gonna survive which I guess I can live with but he's my 3rd most "I'd be fine if he were killed off for good" of the original 6 Avengers. Everyone else who survived I'd prefer to stay alive after Avengers 4 because I'm weak and they still have much to do in these movies.

Edited by XJTordecai on Jul 9th 2018 at 1:12:26 AM

I still don't think that anyone has to die to give the whole thing weight. But if I had to pick someone, it would be Tony, because it makes the most sense from a narrative point of view to me. Plus, everyone seems to expect it being Steve, and Marvel usually does the unexpected.

I'd have no problem with Spider-Man staying dead.

A young life tragically cut short leaves a lasting impact on audience,bringing him back to life like nothing ever happened would lose the effect of his death,so I'm in favour of Peter Parker perishing permanently

Although I think they'll end up undoing everyone's deaths anyway.

Not sure if anyone posted this, but Stephen Bryne did a comic follow up to the snap as a sort of “What if” scenario.

Look, as long as one character I’ve ranted about before stays off the screen I’m eagerly looking forward to where this is taken. But I’m betting good money the snap is undone.

I'd be okay with Spider-Man staying dead, but I'd be pissed if Spidey is dead after IW 2.

Because he's coming back. Everyone snapped is coming back. Which is fine.

What wouldn't be fine is trying to top his death scene in IW 1. Because frankly, they can't. Thus they really shouldn't try.

Steve's character arc is about how he doesn't really fit into this world and desperately needs some sort of military structure to live, whether that's as a member of S.H.I.E.L.D., an Avenger, an illegal Avenger, etc. He's a winter soldier, drifting through life looking for the next battle to fight, the next villain to punch, and utterly incapable of having a life outside of that. Steve never came home from WWII, not really. Not even when they took him out of the ice. He left a piece of himself on the battlefield, and now he only feels alive when there's an enemy to fight.

Tony has a life outside of it, but constantly abandons that life because he feels personally responsible for every goddamn thing that happens on the planet Earth. He's driven to obsession by the fear of tomorrow, spending every waking moment either trying to pre-empt it or actively fighting it when it comes. He's named himself the Earth's defender and has demonstrated time and time again that he is thoroughly incapable of ever letting that mantle go. He can't turn off his brain and just let the fate of the world be someone else's problem.

Both of these are journeys that will likely only end in death. These characters are never going to change, and they're never going to stop fighting until their literal dying breath.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 9th 2018 at 8:25:56 AM

But that is exactly why Steve's arc isn't finished yet. It will only be successfully concluded if he manages to "come home" so to speak, if he actually retires at least for a while. Dying is no satisfying conclusion, because he already did this at the end of The First Avenger. It just didn't stick.

The logical conclusion for Tony's arc on the other hand is him giving up his life and trusting others to continue his legacy and protect the world.

Edited by Swanpride on Jul 9th 2018 at 7:38:32 AM

Honestly, whatever they do and however it ends for either Cap or Tony, I hope we get a scene like this in the movie, only◊ is replaced with Captain Marvel.

What is with Marvel artists and drawing Cap's face weird? He's a handsome man, don't make his face too hyper-masculine.

It's drawing male features the Marvel way™

I'm still a little disappointed we didn't get an adaptation of this.◊

@Beatman1: I feel bad for Aunt May and Peter's friend there. :(

Edited by Demetrios on Jul 9th 2018 at 11:04:19 AM

There is value in a story about a winter soldier learning to cope, healing, and finally putting down the sword. But that's not really a story you can do in superhero media, because of the needs of the narrative. For Steve to finally accept retirement, he would need to be retired from the plot.

You can't just have him punch out Thanos and then declare, "My trauma is healed!" That kind of resolution would have to be a psychological drama, not a superhero action flick. To sell a message about Steve learning to stop searching for villains to fight, he has to spend the duration of the film or, at the very least, its third act not fighting villains.

A more genre-appropriate conclusion for Steve is to recognize the value of the world he can't personally live in, and to give his life to war so that others may enjoy peace. As many soldiers do.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 9th 2018 at 10:15:27 AM

I think ending a movie with Steve announcing his retirement and then just not having him fight anymore after that would be a satisfying end. You could build up to it by having the final battle be an upward progression of strength that leaves Steve in the dust and hammers home that he's completely out of his depth fighting gods by shattering his iconic shield.

I fail to see how "Steve just gives up because it's hard" is a satisfying conclusion.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 9th 2018 at 12:39:47 PM

While I see the point about how a possible ending for Steve is dying in the line of duty (and finally joining all his old friends), I also feel like him finding a life beyond fighting would work as well.

The problem is...even if this isn't exactly the comics, it's still comics based, and characters are rarely ever allowed to retire. So when I think about it, him dying might be the only way for him to really bow out, because as Tobias said, it's not in Steve to not fight. Hell, Civil War was all about him being unable to turn away, and it bit him in the ass.

Are there any other ways Steve's story could wrap up (as I feel Tony will die more than him)?

The thing is, as long as Steve and Tony are alive and able, they have to keep fighting. "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" is a huge theme of Marvel in general, but these two in particular have demonstrated a huge inability to walk away if there's something they can do (and in Steve's case, inability to walk away even if he can't do anything).

I could see Tony stop fighting at some point if he isn't able, but until he dies or his mind goes, he won't be able to stop inventing or possibly being Mission Control.

Steve... frankly, he would need to be crippled for him to retire.

There are ways Tony can still help. He's tried to plan ahead for such things (making Pepper the head of Stark Industries, and setting up Rhodey as his replacement, building Stark Tower, creating Damage control, hell even Ultron was him trying to find a way to end the battle permanently so not just he, but everyone can go home), and now that I really think about it again, between the two of them, Tony might survive to finally have that kid with Pepper.

Steve is the one who might not come back, and really has no where to go if he did. Then again, they may go for Irony and make that the exact reason why Steve lives and Tony dies.

And that's exactly why I don't think he's retiring any time... ever. Because he keeps trying. And every time he apparently puts that behind him (IM 3 being the best example), he fails.