Is it possible for YMMV to have completely opposite viewpoints?

I was wondering whether YMMV was allowed to have completely opposite viewpoints. For example, one person in YMMV saying that a game is Nintendo Hard and another saying that it is an easy game. (Is there a trope for that?) I know YMMV is subjective, but I was wondering whether flat-out contradiction would read well in a YMMV page.

The page I had in mind was the YMMV page for the game N, which states "we can all agree this is Grade A Platform Hell". I know YMMV is subjective but I am not sure whether the page should state this and subsequently state that the game is overall easy. Should I replace it with "some of us can agree"?

There isn't a hard and fast rule for this, but where two examples are inherently contradictory (example: a game is both Nintendo Hard and receives complaints that It's Easy, So It Sucks!), it should be possible to demonstrate a preponderance of opinion. Either that or one can write examples to state that both points of view exist.

Worth noting is that Nintendo Hard is an objective trope, so it wouldn't go on a YMMV subpage regardless. If a work is classified as Nintendo Hard and yet people are complaining about it being easy... well, something's up with that.

edited 6th Apr '17 8:41:56 AM by Fighteer

I don't see the problem with people claiming that a Nintendo Hard game is easy. Wouldn't the difficuty of a game be highly subjective, so a game that some find Nintendo Hard is easy to others? In that case, wouldn't Nintendo Hard be an inherently YMMV trope? (By the way, I am not complaining about it being easy).

Anyway, does that mean that I should simply state that some find it hard and others find it easy?

You could say that, but it's such a trivial statement as to be meaningless. "Some people like it and some don't." "Some find it easy and some find it hard." "Some people work in the day and some people work at night."

As ~Fighteer said "Nintendo Hard has objective criteria listed on the trope page. Someone who says "I thought it was easy" is not addressing those criteria. They're trying to slip a Troper Tale in.

That said, there are YMM Vs that can both apply even if they're diametrically opposite. The theme song to a work can be simultaneously an Earworm and Awesome Music to different people. The author of a work got something wrong. Is it Common Knowledge or a Critical Research Failure? It could well be both if what "everybody who has even the most cursory knowledge of the subject" knows is actually not quite right.

edited 6th Apr '17 2:34:19 PM by Madrugada

To comment on Earworm and Awesome Music, I'm pretty sure it's possible to acknowledge a song as amazing while also stating that because it'll never leave your head it's simultaneously kind of annoying.

See the Duck Tales theme for a good example of that.

I can think of some games that could fit Nintendo Hard and It's Easy, So It Sucks!. There are some genres that by standard are very hard, such as Bullet Hell shooters and IWBTG-inspired platformers. If a game in a series known to be extremely unforgiving is released that isn't quite as hard, fans of the series might complain about it being too easy, since even if it's still hard by a normal person's standards, it's easier than expected for the genre or series, and as such too easy for that expectation.

There are a few points here which confuse me.

First, isn't YMMV supposed to be a page of tropes which you may or may not agree are present? These are tropes where people can disagree. It would seem reasonable for a YMMV page to contain opinions as the YMMV tropes generally are purely a matter of opinion. In this case, it is reasonable for the same page to say two contradictory things, because it reflects the opinions of different people. In this case, should the comment about "but we can all agree this is Grade A Platform Hell" just be removed entirely? (Platform Hell seems easier to define than Nintendo Hard; it is about unfairness rather than pure difficulty, and N is not Platform Hell by these standards)

Secondly, if a game is Nintendo Hard, does that say anything about its difficulty? If Nintendo Hard is objective, it would certainly reasonable for a person to think, without any contradiction, that "This game is Nintendo Hard, but this game is easy." I can understand Another Duck's example, but this could apply to even games not part of a series known for being Nintendo Hard. In this case, that person would say "It meets all the checklists for Nintendo Hard, but is easy", or alternatively "Game A is Nintendo Hard and B is not, but B is much harder than A". If this is contradictory then that would mean that if a game is Nintendo Hard it is difficult. This would make Nintendo Hard subjective, as difficulty is highly subjective.

In any case, if Nintendo Hard is objective then it is not anything to do with how hard a game is.

As for N: Lots of enemies (true) which are hard to dodge (subjective; I would say they are generally very easy to dodge) Surprise attacks (generally false) Malevolent architecture (true, but it doesn't add that much to the difficulty) Very few hits (true) Lack of, or very few, Check Points/Save Points (false; essentially check points every level and save points every episode) Limited lives (false) No difficulty adjustment (mostly true, unless you count underclock in the N Reality mod)

Would this classify as Nintendo Hard? If so, then from my point of view anyway it would class as "objectively Nintendo Hard but still an easy game".

edited 8th Apr '17 4:18:21 AM by BTD6_maker

I actually found a case that involves two contradictory YMMV tropes applying to the same character. In this case, Memetic Badass and Memetic Loser. I want to know what is the verdict on those (Badass cleanup aside)

edited 8th Apr '17 6:53:11 AM by MorningStar1337

It's entirely possible for a character to have contradictory memes floating around.

As long as the viewpoints are prevalent among significant parts of the fan base, then yes, they can both apply. However, if major groups of fans hold diametrically opposed points of view, consider using Broken Base instead.

edited 26th Jul '17 8:14:28 AM by Fighteer

I'm pretty sure Memetic Loser and Memetic Badass can apply at the same time for one character if the two tropes are using different contexts. You can be a loser in one aspect but a badass in another.