The ComicBook/ Namespace, and the lack of requirements to qualify

The discussion was started by this query about the Gentleman Ghost. A C-List villain to Hawkman and Batman, having his own page. At this point I suggested it might be a Wiki Talk issue because at this point I feel like the only requirement to have a page with this namespace is merely being a character in a comic book. this that criteria isn't sufficient enough for a trope it sure as hell ain't sufficient enough for a namespace.

With that said the issue arises due to more prominent figures such as Batman, Superman, etc having a long and bloated history full of several works that would be too tedious to list when placing them under a character name would be easier.

So the question stands. Should we establish stricter requirements for this namespace regarding characters and franchises named for these characters?

edited 21st Oct '16 4:59:59 PM by MorningStar1337

In my opinion, any character who gets a solo book or storyline should be able to have a page. There Is No Such Thing as Notability allows a page to be made out of any series anyway and you might as well allow tropes from all canonical appearances to be listed in the same place. So, someone like Jimmy Olsen having a page is fine because he does have his own book(s), and it makes sense to list tropes from all of his appearances.

I don't think that characters who don't have their own works should have pages no matter how major they may seem (with my view being that any truly major character will eventually have their own solo book or story anyway).

Characters appearing across multiple books is extremely common with Marvel and DC. I don't think Gentleman Ghost needs his own page any more than Penguin or Metallo. Just list his tropes in the characters section of whatever books he appears in.

edited 21st Oct '16 6:08:52 PM by supergod

For we shall slay evil with logic...

Several questions here are getting conflated....

1. Can a work named after a character get a media-specific page?
2. Can several works that share a name, or are similarly named, be put on a single work page?
3. Can a character get a media-specific page?
4. Can a Character/ page replace a media-specific work page?
5. Can a Character/ page replace a multimedia franchise work page?
6. Can a character get a Character/ page by virtue of appearing in enough works?
7. Can a page for one work act as a hub for related events that occur in another work?
8. Is a fictional character a work?

ComicBook.Gentleman Ghost (as it currently stands) is answering question 3 with a yes. I would disagree and say no (cut it). If there is a work that is titled Gentleman Ghost in any medium, then I would answer question 1 with a yes. As it currently stands, a number of comicbook pages are treating questions 3/4/6 as the same thing (the page is about the character, the tropes include non-character elements such as setting and plot from different media, the page is created because the character appears in multiple works). The reasoning would seem based on answering question 8 with a yes.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I just want to point out for question 1. The answer seems to be yes. Otherwise Character Title would not be a trope (same goes for Antagonist Title)

Sure, the character has no solo book or in other media. He is just a secondary character of other franchise like Jsa or Hawkman.

I copied his tropes to JSA villains page. Can start to remove the few llnks in related pages here ?

edited 22nd Oct '16 3:37:14 AM by rafi

I feel like the Gentleman Ghost topic kinda derailed this thread. I want to make clear that the point of this thread was not just about him, but also about establishing standards as to what counts for the Comic Book/ namespace (because there are other cases like Gentleman Ghost)

I'll use ComicBook.Lois Lane as a counter-example, then. It tells the reader where the character comes from, the works where they were the titular character, major storylines that those works featured, and how the character was portrayed in works other than their own.

This page puts the works titled Lois Lane foremost, and includes a mostly plot-related trope list. That the page is mostly about one character is downplayed by the fact that it's still the works specifically written around that character the page addresses. That's all I expect from pages in any namespace.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

So, what criteria we use for these type of pages?

How about The Wasp who has no solo book but still has her own page?

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If there was a book published under The Wasp (or several similarly-named books) and if it covered the plot tropes regarding that series, I'd advocate for it to stay.

As-is, it is a character page in a work Name Space.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I've been thinking about this while sitting on the fence. Personally I think it would make sense to apply the same kind of rule as we do on Franchise pages. The rule there is that the work exists in at least three different mediums. Applying this here would be a character who appears in three different comic books. I would generalise and not include a villain who appears in three different Spider-Man comic books, but I would include one who appears in a Spider-Man comic book, an X-Men comic book, and a Batman comic book.

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I'd argue that sich a page would belong in the Character/ namespace; then linked/indexed from the character tabs of relevant works.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Crazysamaritan, I have to disagree regarding the Wasp, that character is over 50 years old, so she has a long history, despite usually appearing in the The Avengers comic books (she debuted in Ant-Man's story in Tales to Astonish), and has a legacy hero, Unstoppable Wasp (that's a redlink, she's currently covered on the same page as the original). If you merge her page with the Avengers characters page, I reckon she'd need her own subpage anyway!

Also, there's currently a problem with the Marvel character pages. A lot of them were merged, but some mistakes were made. For example, click on Characters from The Incredible Hulk (Western Animation) or The Incredible Hulk (Series) and you'd expect to be taken to specific character pages for each work (90s cartoon and Bixby TV show), right? It redirects to Marvel Cinematic Universe, which is the wrong page - that's only correct for The Incredible Hulk. Only reason the comic book doesn't do the same is because of the lack of a leading The. Anything like that needs to be a disambiguation page, not a redirect.

edited 25th Nov '16 9:40:43 PM by Digifiend

That is, in fact, my recommendation.

I agree. Redirects for character subpages are wrong unless the title is depreciated due to moving the work title.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Isn't a disambiguation page basically a redirect with multiple targets?

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Another question is the opposite situation. For example there is Harley Quinn that has not her personal page despite to be actually one of main characters in the Dc universe. This because there a page relate just to her solo book; why not simply add a folder with the general tropes from Batman Villains page?

edited 7th Dec '16 11:53:59 AM by rafi

Really for comics their comic needs to be in the main space IE for Superman it would be Action Comics among others for instance which exists.

The character itself can get a page and talk about his various appearances in comics and linked in the Comicbook's character page. But it should be in the character namespace and have it be continuity specific like each Ultimate Universe or reboot it should get a section for that incarnation's specific tropes.

Also the Superman page needs some MAJOR cleanup and removal of gushing.

EDIT: this includes characters like Sherlock Holmes and Mickey Mouse too as well all the works they appear in already have pages to themselves in addition to the characters.

edited 6th Jan '17 1:24:20 PM by Memers

I think that justi important characters need a personal page. For example i created a page for Mephisto because the character was mentioned (as villain) in three pages (Thor, Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange) and generally is one of Big Bad of Marvel Universe along with people like dr. Doom, red Skull, ecc..

While i don't understand because Pepper Potts, that is a supporting character in Iron Man, has her personal page. Moreover she has also the folder in Iron Man characters page with the same trope list.

Discussion here is not very active, but there seems to be only two approaches that have a large following;

1. We should allow characters to be created in the Character namespace without an attached work (link to works the character appears in before listing tropes).
2. We should allow characters to be created in medium-specific namespaces without an attached work (treat characters as works independently of their source material).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

The main reason comic book characters are as they are is that many of them are not linked to a single work.

Superman, for instance, debuted in Action Comics but has also had several other books over the years.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

Crazy: Number 1 sounds the most logical. As noted just above my post characters appear across multiple works in many instances.

Who watches the watchmen?

To be honest, pages about a single character, IMO, should be made when said character's sub-section on a character page is large enough to justify it's own page. Barring that, I see no reason they can't be put in a character page somewhere with links to said page in other locations.

That sounds like an Option 3;

• Eliminate all Character pages without an attached work (single-character pages should exist only as subpages to one work/series-of-works).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

An example?

ComicBook.Gentleman Ghost is a page that is about a specific character, but tropes examples from any work that character appears in, rather than from a specific work.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.