Duplicate Trope: Refugee From TV Land

If by "magic portal" you mean one that the fictional character use to cross to the real world in the first place, then it might still count. Talking dog, though? Most likely not.

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

Well, the magic portal brought one character from a universe populated by dragons, hydras, and talking farm animals into a world populated by cartoon humans with unrealistic skin colors like lavender and cyan...

I just answered my own question, didn't I? Not quite an example...

I think I have the general idea of what Real World Episode is as you've described it, and it makes sense. So...what's the next move?

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at earlier by suggesting a supertrope Crossing The Boundaries Of Fiction: going into, coming out of, or traveling between worlds which are considered to be fictional in-universe.

The one part I'm still not quite sure of is the "considered" part. In some works, a(n in-universe) fictional universe is just that. Purely fictional. Others, however, explain it by saying something like "some people can tap into alternate universes in their dreams". In other words, the supposed in-universe fiction (which may be actual fiction in our universe) isn't really fictional.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

"the supposed in-universe fiction (which may be actual fiction in our universe) isn't really fictional."

So in this specific case they're instead Another Dimensions to each other?

Then again, your subtrope idea sounds like it is a subtrope of Another Dimension.

"going into, coming out of, or traveling between worlds which are considered to be fictional in-universe."

Isn't this already covered of Refugee from TV Land, or (perhaps) you're splitting it into two (one is the one you stated, the other is Real-World Episode)?

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

Mutually Fictional: two (or more) universes that consider each other to be fictional.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Yes, such cases would be covered as well, but that's far more specific. Two parallel fictional 'verses may each be fictional from the perspective of a parent reality, but that doesn't make them mutually fictional.

A story where the protagonist visits two different in-universe-fictional 'verses wouldn't count as Mutually Fictional, for example. (Or wouldn't necessarily count.) But it would still count for the supertrope.

If we do make a supertrope (or two), though, Mutually Fictional should definitely be mentioned in the description somewhere.

---

Anyway, that aside, I think one key element that's being overlooked in much of this discussion is primary setting of the work. That seems to me to be the key distinction between the existing tropes. Refugee from TV Land is where someone goes from a Story Within a Story to the primary setting, while Real-World Episode, the primary setting is revealed to be the Story Within a Story of a containing 'verse. (Where the containing 'verse is usually suggested to be our reality—even though it's obviously not.)

I think those are ok tropes, personally, but limited.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

That's exactly what I said in post #8.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Right now Mutually Fictional is a trivia item, which is used more for cases like "Show X and Show Y exist in our world, and both considers each other fictional". It's not a proper trope, and (more importantly) it's different than "Show Y exists inside Show X, in actuality Show Y is a real thing" (which some examples in the Mutually Fictional page are).

Currently that's the definition for Real-World Episode (and would count your MLP example even if the "real world" is also unreal to an extent). However, again, there's the issue of making it focus more on the "real world" (i.e ours) part of the trope, without necessarily jumping the barrier (like Refugee from TV Land would).

And we do have Nested Story Reveal (and Nested Story). Looks like they're all related?

edited 25th Feb '17 7:34:39 PM by Getta

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

Both are close to the definition of Mutually Fictional. A better summary is "Work X is fictional within Work Y, and Work Y is fictional within Work X. Then they meet." Double-checking the page, I note another duplicate to Refugee from TV Land; Comic Books Are Real.

Only if characters from one storyline leave theirs to interact with characters from another. Though I note an arbitrary comment that they are "not" Show Within a Show because the story is too "complex" for that trope.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Great...I think we're more or less agreed on the distinction between Real-World Episode and Refugee from TV Land: the latter was a character from a Show Within a Show and the former is more-or-less not.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record by asking this question again, but...what should we do, at this point? Should we add something to the description that explains the distinction and clean up the examples on those two pages so that they meet the definitions?

I think they should be merged. The distinction seems insufficient to provide a narrative change.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

Do we merge Real-World Episode into Refugee from TV Land? The latter seems a bit catchier and more general.

edited 9th Mar '17 4:59:55 AM by longWriter

I like Refugee from TV Land more for the pairity to Trapped in TV Land, but ~Xtifr is currently trying to explain a perspective to us.

I would like discussion to continue until I understand their view (so I can decide if I agree or disagree) or they don't feel the current page is good enough for their idea (taking it to TLP as a new trope, instead).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Yes, well, part of my problem is that I'm not entirely sure what the best approach is here. The arguments for merging make a fair amount of sense. On the other hand, these do seem like they're used differently. They just feel like different tropes. Closely related, obviously, but there's something that seems very different to me about "our heroes go meet their actual writer" and "someone pops out of the movie screen to meet our heroes".

(I will say that the image on Refugee looks like it belongs on Real-World Episode. Which is certainly not helping to distinguish them. If we do keep them as separate tropes, I highly recommend moving that pic, since Real World doesn't have an image.)

I tried looking at the examples to see if that would help me make up my mind, but it really didn't. However, there's several which don't seem to fit either trope, which only reinforces my idea that we need a supertrope here. (A few, like the one for the comic book, Fables, seem more like All Fiction Is Real Somewhere, which is another related trope.)

For now, I guess, count me as neutral.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

What I THINK is the run-down

Real-World Episode: The characters get sent into the real world (ie: our world or a version of it) Space Jam is one since the Michael Jordan plays himself and the toons come into out world to ask for his help. Elements for his life his attempts to switch to Baseball and Golf are even present. Supernatural also has one where Sam and Dean get sent into a flanderized version of our world and land right on the set of Supernatural. Misha Collins even plays a fictional, douchebag version of himself.

Trapped in TV Land: The characters get sent into a Show Within a Show. Sam and Dean getting trapped in various shows by The Trickster would be another Supernatural Example. One of the shows is explicitly a medical drama called Doctor Sexy Dean watches

Refugee from TV Land: When the characters form the Show Within a Show come into the real shows universe. Last Action Hero is something with elements of this because the golden ticket can pull characters out of movies.

I agree this sounds like there's missing Super-Trope these all belong to because these are all distinct, but related tropes.

.

edited 13th Mar '17 9:32:13 PM by shoboni

I made a crowner: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/PageAction/RefugeeFromTVLand

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Clarify trope descriptions and clean up misuse is at 9:1 approval while the other options are way below red.

Do we want to call this one?

Usually we let crowners run for a few days, first. But I should start writing new descriptions since that's likely to be the answer.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Rewatching this movie to provide context, and it starts with "real life" (although the movie plays with the concept; they're actors that are assumed to be fictional characters), making this work an example of Refugee from TV Land. That's exactly why I don't think the distinction makes a difference in storytelling.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

It's part of the greater Looney Tunes franchise which makes it this for the Looney Tunes cast., who are the central characters.

edited 14th Mar '17 8:11:06 PM by shoboni

Both tropes are "this" for the Show Within a Show characters, that's the whole reason why the distinction is so muddied to begin with! Refugee from TV Land puts just as much emphasis on the characters being from an established franchise as Real-World Episode does.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Looney Tunes isn't a show within a show. They're the heroes and Space Jam is a movie in their franchise.

I take show within a show to mean a FICTIONAL work that only exists in-universe.

Looney Tunes exists as a Show Within a Show to the work of Space Jam. The cartoon is interrupted while Mr. Jackson's children are watching television.

The trope Show Within a Show is not limited to completely original works within a primary work; one subtrope (School Play) has almost exclusively reused works featured in the primary work.

The fact that some characters exist as fictional from the perspective of other characters is the point of both tropes; I don't even understand what you want to argue by saying Jordan doesn't see them as fictional characters.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

...when did I even say?

I...

I have no idea how you even got that last line from anything I said.