Diversity and Representation in Media

Ah, I stand corrected.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 25th 2020 at 8:07:44 AM

Hunters, an Amazon Prime t.v. show, has received some criticism from the Auschwitz Memorial for what they view as a sensationalized and inaccurate depiction of Auschwitz.

Edited by windleopard on Feb 25th 2020 at 8:13:38 AM

Another review by Michal Schick (who is Jewish) took issue with the fictionally heightened violence as well.

Wait, there's gonna be a TV series for Love, Simon? When did this get announced?

@Lyendith: the Tumblr post I quoted (I'll link it again) mentions one of the Naruto movies as an example where, even though a gay character doesn't appear, Naruto asks someone "are you an Okama?" (translated as "are you a transvestite?" in the Naruto movie example). Right after this paragraph:

Not used by the author of the post as the most egregious example necessarily, but an example of just how widespread the stereotype is.

Li Shang was removed from the Mulan remake because of the Me Too! movement[1]. So far social media hasn't been taking it well especially with Li Shang's status as a bisexual icon.

Edited by ComicFan on Feb 27th 2020 at 5:51:30 AM

From the article:

I agree wholeheartedly.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

The issue isn't that it's a superior. The issue is unwanted and unreturned sexual attraction and sexual assault. The problem wouldn't be Shang as a commanding officer, it would be making sure the agency, consent, and attraction are executed in the right places.

I mean, it's worth noting that in the original film there's not really much romance between the two for like 99% of the movie. Shang only realizes he's attracted to her at the very end and by then he isn't a superior officer to Mulan anymore because she isn't a soldier in the army.

Mmm, on one hand, I see the point. On the other, Mulan earns Shang’s respect and whatnot.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.

And the power imbalance between superior and subordinate is a key factor in defining consent and agency.

Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)

I’d have to rewatch the movie, but yeah, I don’t believe their relationship was especially romantic before the end.

And in any case, I don’t think that they needed to cut Shang out of the movie entirely because of that. I mean, what sort of relationship does the character replacing him have with Mulan?

Oh God! Natural light!

Remind me: what actually happened between Shang and "Ping"? I don't think they actually get any "romantic" moments while Ping's there and when Shang actually does go to talk to Mulan in what may be a vaguely romantic light, it was when Mulan was just Mulan and after the war.

During the war, Shang doesn't really make any moves on Ping and kinda despises him as much as everybody else there before the montage. He learns to respect him for his growth in ability, support for when he was denied the chance to move out, and for saving his life, which is pretty much why Mulan didn't get shanked once she was found out.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

I think Shang in the remake is now a Decomposite Character or something.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.

I think during "I will make a man of you" Shang make a look on Mulan...while she is still Ping, maybe see this as Shang liking Mulan in a male disguise, which can be see as bisexuality.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I took that as him being impressed at Ping finally kicking his ass.

Edited by fredhot16 on Feb 27th 2020 at 6:39:21 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

I am going to be honest the reason for cutting Shang is shaky. And it doesn't hide the fact that his movie has the main actress be apologetic for the Hong Kong Police and deriding the protesters. Also the fact that the movie seems to pander to the sensibilities of the CCP.

In the original, while there are definitely hints of mutual attraction beforehand (the "I think you're a great captain!" exchange comes to mind), neither acts on it while they're in the army. It's only at the end, when Mulan has left the army and turned down a position as Shang's superior that he chastely asks her on a date.

So no, I don't buy that that's the legitimate reason. Especially considering that this comes after months of criticism of the story being rewritten to appeal to Chinese censors, with Shang's removal as a particular point of contention given his common interpretation as bi. The fact that this interview seems to go out of its way to say that "Oh yeah, this new guy will totally have the same subtext as Shang!" seems a bit...pander-y, like it's going out of its way to seem woke. Especially given that the character's initial description said that he dislikes Mulan initially and only changes his mind after learning she's a woman, which seems like a clear case of the not-gays.

So was I but here we are.

Yeah, mulan said that and mushu chastie saying "Cut the act", but as thing the two never really interact that much because they are profesional(short off).

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I have many doubts about the creative team on the Mulan remake, particularly after this recent comment by the director.

So the "culture of Disney" is as historically and societally as important as Chinese culture...

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 27th 2020 at 7:26:21 AM

Well, they took out Mushu and 'I'll Make A Man Out of You' so there goes the so-called 'culture of Disney' anyway.

Edited by erazor0707 on Feb 27th 2020 at 10:35:32 AM

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.

Chalk me up as another person who's wary of this change and suspects that they're exploiting a woke cause du jour as an excuse to justify a change that had much more unwoke origins. Much like how they attempted to pass off "the Ancient One is now a white woman" as a super progressive move when it was motivated at least partially by Chinese nationalism.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 27th 2020 at 11:03:22 AM

Shang's role was less love interest and more the authority figure she had to prove herself to. She shows a little Eating the Eye Candy when he starts the training shirtless, but it's somewhat refreshing in that their attraction to each other comes in a distant second to their relationship as soldier and commander. So the question is... is there anyone in the movie who is that authority figure learning to let her loose or are her fellow soldiers not important either?

Gonna have to wait until the movie comes out to find out. On Shang's relationship with Mulan, I think that the following could all be true:

• Superior-subordinate "romances" are pretty sketchy as a rule, including in a military setting.
• In the movie itself, though, Shang keeps his relationship with Mulan strictly professional and doesn't begin to make a move until she's a respected hero who's no longer under his command.
• His whole arc is about learning that Mulan isn't any less capable just because she's a woman; romantic attraction isn't a part of the lesson but doesn't necessarily contradict it.

The whole thing gives off an air of "you can't even compliment your female co-workers anymore"-type-of-backlash about it and the erasure of his bisexuality is definitely a concern, but again, I'd wait until the movie comes out to see how those things translate via the new characters.

Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)

Chalk me up as another person who's wary of this change and suspects that they're exploiting a woke cause du jour as an excuse to justify a change that had much more unwoke origins.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.

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