Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

Why would a person who is picking up a comic book for the first time be privy to what a Cosmic Cube is?

I don't really feel sympathy for that person given that it takes 2-3 minutes to google "Cosmic Cube" these days, or 15-20 seconds to ask somebody who knows more, or 5 seconds to read the blurb that says, "read Avengers #33 to find out more about the Cosmic Cube!"

Not to mention the 2-4 different encyclopedias that exist for Marvel Comics.

When the franchise says "Part 7 of 9" it's not saying, "don't worry, you can ignore the last 6 and just start here!"

I don't get that. It's not like anyone watches Return of the King before The Fellowship of The Ring or Matrix Revolutions before watching The Matrix.

Edited by Soble on Jul 17th 2018 at 6:29:46 AM

That and generally there are always self contained stories for people to start with that can allow them to get a feel for something before they jump into the deep end of a specific series.

Well, asking someone to watch a film or two before the latest in a trilogy isn't unfair but sometimes comics can be really old.

That being said, Cosmic Cube is more or less self explanatory to anyone who's familiar with fiction. It might as well be called MacGuffin.

When the franchise says "Part 7 of 9" it's not saying, "don't worry, you can ignore the last 6 and just start here!" I don't get that. It's not like anyone watches Return of the King before The Fellowship of The Ring or Matrix Revolutions before watching The Matrix.

You realize this is a Star Wars thread, right? AKA the series that starts with "Episode 4 of 9." I'm fairly certain literally no one in this thread tells their friends who haven't seen Star Wars to begin with Episode 1.

No one tells their friends who've never seen LOTR to start with The Hobbit either. Doesn't matter, if the originals never get theatrical rereleases. If that's the first one they see, it has to make a good impression and the moviemakers know this. Every first entry in a new trilogy has to carry its own weight. I feel that TFA did that. TLJ does not have that obligation, being the second element in a known trilogy. TTT was probably the weakest single entry in the Lord Of the Rings, because it neither began or ended a story.

Considering star wars has multiple viewing orders which includes watching in chronological order. Wouldn't be surprised if there were other orders that put episode 1 as the first film to watch.

The reason calling something fan fiction is derogatory is it becomes a host of all sorts of other trends that you don't see in other works, Sturgeon's Law or otherwise. In it's simplest form, fans getting to play in a certain sandbox incites them to recycle everything that came before. After finding fan fiction as a teenager I noticed that most of them were concerned with repackaging the classic storylines (if not outright retelling them), making constant references to things that came before and ensuring that every character gets to say their Catchphrase at least once. It's fun for the fans but results in a very stale entry.

Every few years DC comics ends up doing a new "Infinite Crisis" story because of the success of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Whatever their quality, it's essentially the writers getting a chance to write their own modified take on the same concept. In turn it requires a much higher quality to stand out as it's own work, and none has really compared to the original.

In general though, while a continuing story can result in a more fulfilling narrative, saying "you need to catch up on 20 years worth of plot to get this" is not good writing and not a way to keep fans or expand the fanbase. A lot of densely plotted shows like LOST only alienated the fans by the end because it became too insider-oriented.

Edited by KJMackley on Jul 18th 2018 at 11:09:31 AM

I can think of One exception to that.

Yes, a single Piece of evidence proving the other side.

Didn't that just recently have a chapter dedicated to reintroducing old characters and explaining how they knew Luffy?

If you're talking about 910...kinda sorta, but plenty of other stuff happens too.

My point was having a continuous story run for nearly 21 years has been proven, in at least one instance, to not be bad writing, and to hardly alienate fans so much as be the most successful work in its medium of all time.

Doctor Who, Detective Conan, Dragonball Z, certain versions of Gundam, Harry Potter.

Star Wars is technically an exception because it's divided into three different eras, but my point is still that catering to new people in a long-running series is a foolish practice, remakes and reboots obviously excluded.

It would have been better for me to say that nobody tells their friends who haven't watched Star Wars before to start with The Last Jedi or Return of the Jedi.

My problems with that are:

• I've yet to see any work that demands you churn through 20 years worth of plot. In the case of the Cosmic Cube, all you really need to do is Google it, ask a comic book enthusiast, or crack open one of Marvel's encyclopedias.
• There are several Long Runner franchises with years worth of plot that are de facto examples of good writing, or at the very least, continuous success.
• LOST had a lot of problems beyond being "insider-oriented." I binge-watched it and enjoyed almost every minute, but I'd argue it's winding spiral of Aborted Arc's, rotating cast members, and heavy-handed mysticism were why it alienated so many. - because while you say being insider-oriented was a problem, what I understand is that all of the seemingly connected mysteries and Continuity Nod's in the show are what cultivated it's fanbase.

Edited by Soble on Jul 19th 2018 at 12:49:40 PM

STAR WARS has sadly been listed as the 2nd most toxic fandom in the galaxy by Wired.

https://www.wired.com/story/10-most-toxic-fandoms/

2. The Dark Side of Star Wars Fandom

The most recent eruption has been a hilariously non-ironic campaign to remake The Last Jedi, but that's sadly just the latest in a long line of online grossness from the entitled Sith who are so keen on reclaiming the Star Wars universe . Somehow, Gamergate has come to a galaxy far, far away; hectoring, harassment, even death threats aimed at director Rian Johnson. To be clear, this is a tiny (if vocal) subset of Star Wars fandom, which on the whole is as joyous and inclusive as the universe is finally becoming. But to to quote our own Adam Rogers:

"Everyone has a right to opinions about movies. Everyone has a right, I guess, to throw those opinions in the face of the people who make those movies, though it does seem at minimum impolite. Everyone has the right to ask transnational entertainment companies to make the movies they want, and if those companies don’t respond, to stop giving the companies money. But harassment, threats, jokes about someone’s race or gender? A Jedi would fight someone who did that stuff. The Force binds us all together. Hatred and anger are the ways of the Dark Side; they may bring power, but at a cost. It harms individuals, debases the people who do it, and it breaks the Fellowship. In the end, the cost of that power will be powerlessness."

In some really, really like really unexpected glorious news, THEY JUST ANNOUNCED A BRAND NEW SEASON FOR THE CLONE WARS!!!!!!!

Here be the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI7WyhWZkzk

I’m not even sure how this possible but it is, the Clone Wars are coming back.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 19th 2018 at 1:11:37 AM

(2) This feels a little too reactive.

While I'm... sort of happy about this, just... how many chapters of the Clone Wars are there? How long did this war go on far?

I thought The Clone Wars ended because it led right into Rebels!?

Edited by Soble on Jul 19th 2018 at 1:17:09 AM

The Siege of Mandolore is the intended Grand Finale for the Clone Wars since it would have wrapped up nearly all of the plot points introduced in the series.

Edited by Shadao on Jul 19th 2018 at 1:20:04 AM

Ventressssssssss please bring back Ventress

I believe Clone Wars was supposed to have one last final season before it got canceled.

This may be that final season.

She will most likely get a proper send-off.

She was going to get a proper sendoff in The Clone Wars cartoon, but then it was canceled. Her post-script season episodes were recycled into a novel iirc, but idk if it falls under Legends or not

EDIT: Wait, they're bringing it back?! OMG, I wonder if they're going to finish producing the material that was recorded and storyboarded but left unanimated, or if this is entirely new material?

Edited by Xopher001 on Jul 19th 2018 at 4:36:52 AM

I think it was approved and written post-acquisition, so it must be canon.

Well, this is unexpected.

Its a new clone war because the Republic just ordered a new clone army to take on the first order's forces

But the First Order just ordered a new clone army to take on the Republic's forces!

IT'S CLONE V. CLONE FOR THE FATE OF THE GALAXY. How will one million copies of one dude handle a bitter and grueling war against one million copies of the same dude?!

The clones also come pre equipped with a kill all force users order.

SPOILERS LEAKED!

[(spoiler:Anakin falls to the Dark Side, becomes Darth Vader, and then he and the clones kill everybody.)]