Disney's Live-Action Thread

Personally, I don't the mind the differences between the Narnia books and the films.

Especially how the later films branch off and conclude as a trilogy.

To me, that's vastly preferable over killing every major character off and having the Sole Survivor be a woman who apparently became vain and was said to have cast off her innocence and piety.

Edited by BrightLight on Mar 24th 2020 at 2:07:34 AM

Oh no, that's a powder keg nearly 64 years old...

If the movies adapted that now I think they'd swap Susan for one of her brothers

New theme music also a box

Apparently Lewis was going to continue the series and have Susan reunite with the rest of them but died before he finished it if we're being totally fair

Edited by miraculous on Mar 23rd 2020 at 6:15:28 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

In one letter Lewis mused that "there is plenty of time for [Susan] to mend, and perhaps she will get to Aslan’s country in the end—in her own way." In another, he said: "the story of her journey would be longer and more like a grown-up novel than I wanted to write". But he also encouraged readers to write about her fate themselves. “But I may be mistaken. Why not try it yourself?”

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 23rd 2020 at 6:21:43 AM

For anyone interesting in Narnia, you should definitely read Neil Gaiman's "The Problem of Susan." It's a kind of fanfic from Susan's perspective and it creepy as fuck.

The name Gaiman should have been enough warning.

Wake me up at your own risk.

Recognition for the BBC productions!

Maybe I should rewatch them now. Since watching them when stuck at home for a while was a childhood tradition.

Gaiman can write some weird stuff. Fun fact he wrote story where snow white is an evil vampiric predator

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

He made Coraline, the story where there's an alternate hellspawn dimension in a little girl's crawlspace where the monster in charge replaces children's eyes with buttons.

It's been 3000 years…

When did he write that? I only ask because there used to be a meme a few years back about how Snow White sounded like a vampire (based on how she's described) and that was the real reason the queen wanted her dead.

If I had a nickel for every film where Emma Stone falls off a balcony... I'd only have two nickels, but weird that there's two of them.

Haven't actually read it, but it's this one.

And it wouldn't be "live-action", but a subversive adaptation of the Narnia books in the style of Laika's Coraline would be right up my alley.

Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)

I am going to be honest people harp on the fact that Susan was left behind too much. C.S. Lewis actually was planning on having Susan find her own way back to Narnia. She might have fallen out of it, but it's emphasized that Susan will find a way alternatively. As the trivia page showed, Lewis had her own book planned called Susan Of Narnia. The thing is with Gailman's "The Problem With Susan" that it misses the point of why Susan became a non-friend of Narnia. The problem of Susan was she became too worldly and mistook superficial pleasures for being grown up.

That's really downplaying what the problem of Susan is. Not to mention the sexism wrapped up in how Susan is written out.

I don't agree with the notion from many that it was sexist to write Susan out in that way.

Edited by firewriter on Mar 24th 2020 at 7:29:55 AM

I think what makes it jarring is how abrupt it is. The last time we saw Susan, she was leaving Narnia after a maturing journey in Prince Caspian, the second book in the series. Then, barring cameos in Dawn Treader and Horse and his Boy, she isn't seen at all or plays any protagonist role. So when the last book suddenly says "uh Susan doesn't believe in Narnia anymore", it feels extremely sudden to claim her character changed in such a massive way all offscreen.

I think Lewis's intentions with Susan were good; since rejection of the fear of childishness is a major theme of his work, I think that's how he meant to frame her absence rather than from too much femininity. And Narnia's other heroines like Lucy, Jill, Aravis, and Polly are all distinct and compelling in their own way. But it's not unfair to feel cheated and take the worst conclusions from such a swift swerve with Susan. It's much like how some viewers got annoyed that Bruce and the Hulk merged offscreen in Avengers Endgame.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 24th 2020 at 7:54:52 AM

Again I wonder what would have happened if he did finish his Susan Of Narnia book before he died. I think many people would feel less unsatisfied. Maybe it could have told more about how Susan fell from believing in Narnia. On the other hand, C.S. Lewis did encourage people to write their own fanfiction about what happened next. Seriously, that's one aspect of C.S. Lewis I find fascinating is that he was encouraging of fanfiction. He probably wouldn't be a fan of the more explicit fanfiction, but I wonder how it does seem like he would be encouraging of it.

Edited by firewriter on Mar 24th 2020 at 7:55:08 AM

Oh it's absolutely sexist. She is said to be "no longer a friend of Narnia" because "she's interested in nothing now-a-days except nylons and lipstick and invitations." And then it's stated by Jill, "She wasted all her school time wanting to be the age she is now, and she'll waste all the rest of her life trying to stay that age. Her whole idea is to race on to the silliest time of one's life as quick as she can and then stop there as long as she can."

Lewis even calls her "a rather silly, conceited young woman" in one of his letters:

As for Lewis making a sequel about Susan, there is nothing at all to indicate he was going to. In fact, he even stated that any book about Susan was something he was unable to write:

It's only reviewer Barbara Wheatley who imagined that Lewis left Susan out because he had planned to write more books, so he would have let her grow up and have children of her own and they would thus be the next generation to explore whatever world came after Narnia. But that was complete and utter speculation — there's no proof he had any plans for Susan at all.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 24th 2020 at 8:37:38 AM

@alliterator

I still don't see it as the sexism that people make it out to be.Again it's not her being feminine that made her distracted from what being an adult is like, but it's the superficial side of adulthood. And again she's trying so hard to stay that age, which is something I think is relevant in this day and age. The fact that people try to stay in their so-called prime in their lives, while never truly growing up. She has a teenaged concept of what it means to be an adult while not actually being one at heart. And I think Lewis probably saw some of Susan in himself, since he spent a lot of his early years as an atheist and probably saw he wasn't that different from Susan during that time.

Also calling someone a "silly conceited woman" isn't sexist in my opinion. I think if it was Peter and he did the same thing of giving up some of his imagination for a superficial understanding of being an adult then he would call him a "silly conceited man". I think that phrase is hyberboled as being sexist, when if it was the other way around then no one would care.

Edited by firewriter on Mar 24th 2020 at 9:19:49 AM

Except the only "superficial" thing we know about her is that she's "interested in nothing now-a-days except nylons and lipstick and invitations." Lewis doesn't delve into anything about her, giving her no reason at all (except that she is "no longer a friend of Narnia") why she isn't there. All we are given is that she is only interested in "nylons and lipstick and invitations."

If a series had a main character that was pretty important in the first two books not show up in the finale, with little to no explanation other than that she was interested more in "nylons and lipstick and invitations," what else would you call that?

Except Peter doesn't do the same thing. The only character to miss out in Aslan's Heaven is Susan, the only female character who is a young adult at the time. (Lucy and Jill are both still children.)

This argument is reductive and bad.

Polly is also there, who is (or rather, was until Aslan's Country turned her young again) an elderly woman.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 24th 2020 at 10:03:51 AM

Right. Two children and an elderly woman; meanwhile, the young woman who was one of the four Pevensies that started this entire thing is left out because she's more interesting in "nylons and lipstick and invitations."

Edited by alliterator on Mar 24th 2020 at 10:14:43 AM

@alliterator

When I think of it I see someone who has gotten more superficial with time. While I would like more explanation for her change of behavior, I don't think choosing her was the wrong move. In a way, since she's been away from Narnia for a while I think it makes sense she would have potentially fallen away from believing in it.

She's not actually interested in adult things, she's more interested in the shallow concept of being an adult. Again the emphasis is on her being very worldly, it's not the femininity that makes her fallen but the fact that she latches onto hollow understanding of what adult life is.

@truck

I think the reason why Poly was aged back has to due with the belief that being in heaven could make us young again.

Edited by firewriter on Mar 24th 2020 at 10:17:57 AM

Calling her a "conceited young woman" because she became interested in adult things is pretty much the definition of sexism. She's interested in "nylons and lipstick and invitations" — i.e. boys and sex — therefore she is left out from going to Heaven and can only get in when she learns to be better, as per a footnote Lewis wrote:

So...the character who was called Queen Susan the Gentle is no longer gentle because she's interested in boys? Yep, sexist.

She is away for the same amount of time as Peter, but Peter is allowed to return and not her. Hell, Peter is older than Susan, but he's allowed to stay in Aslan's Heaven.

Edited by alliterator on Mar 24th 2020 at 10:19:04 AM

Well yeah, Age Without Youth for eternity would suck.

I shall retreat to fanfics where Susan is gay and her absence is because she's trying to forget the life in Narnia she lost and couldn't return to, going on a personal journey for some years until she comes back for good.