General Japanese Culture Thread

I have. It was awesome. Lot of changes when I first went there in the 90s.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"

Like what?

I just feel that, with so much negativity surrounding the East Asia area at the current moment (the recession in Japan, the re-arming of Japan's Defense and drones, the continued island conflict, China's increased nationalism and attempts to sway South Korea by reminding them of Japan's past), it would be good to hear some of the more positive aspects of Japan's culture right now.

Mostly with the way of moving around by commuting. I see more and more people using the subway, although that's from my perpective as a kid seeing Japan for the first time.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"

The food here is really good. Try the chicken nuggets. So delicious and fatty compared to the American style.

Why can't they just apologize?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Sent you a PM on that subject.

Anyways, what are some of the popular trends in Japan?

Can I get that PM too?

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!

You mean right now?

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"

I have lived in Japan (as was evident in my earlier posts) and as I said I found plenty of things enjoyable. Many of the local people were very nice, the food is great and I generally enjoyed the atmosphere, though as I also wrote earlier in the thread there are of course negative aspects to the country as well. I actually once wrote a long post about good and bad things about living in Japan, here is the link https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13564809220A70280100&page=1#16

edited 22nd Jul '14 8:51:19 AM by mathias

Been to Japan 3 times now. I hated the general level of noise in Tokyo, but otherwise loved it there. I certainly want to pay a visit again, but want to improve my Japanese first. (A photo we took during my second trip is currently on the kawaisa page)

What impressed me to most are the old women there. They were so open, friendly and fearless, just chatting with me (and my friends) like we've been neighbours for years. Despite not speaking a single word of English. And, when being on the countryside it's weird if people photograph you like you are some kind of celebrity (yes, seriously, that happened :D).

Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/

Herbivore Men. I don't understand.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

What don't you understand? It's basically the same as the "Men Going Their Own Way" movement here.

Women suddenly don't like to be property and baby factories, and dudes suddenly don't know how to do deal with such a radical change. So they opt out.

"Men Going Their Own Way"? I've never head of such a thing before, and although I get part of it (I've seen my fair share of feminists who also happen to be utter jerk-asses about it, and many, many women are lame or terrible people, but the same is true for dudes)... I dunno, my libido and desperate craving for intimacy, love, affection, and interdependence would never let me give up on attempting to find a partner. I just think of it as a very difficult problem to eventually solve with sufficient application and intelligence. As for ignoring women entirely, why deprive myself of good friends and allies just because they are of another gender?

Back to japan, the bits that surprise me:

• The spectacularly low sex drives (seriously, WTF?)
• The implication that 'herbivore men' are lesser men for it
• What the heck does that have to do with living as a freeloader?!

edited 23rd Jul '14 9:45:15 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Basically, traditional Japanese gender roles state that men are supposed to be ambitious and assertive. This doesn't just mean in dating, but in every facet, from personal growth, occupation, enlightenment, etc. Herbivore Men are basically guys who have lost the desire to be assertive due to both Japanese societal pressures to succeed and persevere and the fact that some women have now entered that arena, often as competitors.

Also, I should note that the dating portion of it is not exactly a counter-movement against "Feminism" (only if you consider feminism to mean "the opposite of sexism—which I do, but many others do not). It's a counter-movement against female empowerment in general; it's basically, "These broads are hard to deal with, so I'm gonna stay in my cave with my anime waifus."

These "broads" were always hard to deal with, even at the height of patriarchy. The person who's responsible for your domestic comfort, sexual satisfaction, and, most importantly, your progeny and their basic education, can really fuck your life up if she tries, in oh so many little ways. I've been raised in a culture that's as patriarchal as it gets, and nothing ruins a man's life quite like a disgruntled wife. The limits of what they can or can't do have changed, the roles and duties have changed, but finding a good partner and making the couple work is just as difficult and random and haphazard as it has ever been.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Yes, but married life is Level 2. Yeah, that one's alway been a little difficult if you didn't know what you were doing. But, it didn't take much effort to get there.

Level 1 was supposed to be the easy, beginner level stage in the patriarchal societal structure. Women were supposed to be easy conquests.

But now that Level 1 has gotten hard, some guys don't want to play anymore.

edited 23rd Jul '14 10:22:13 AM by KingZeal

Easy conquests? More like easily long quests. Arranged Marriage did not mean easy marriage, it just involved very different skills and social infrastructures than the current Dating System, but it was often involved and complex and lengthy.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Having just come back from the Metroid thread, one topic that was being discussed was indeed the way females are seen in Japan. Since most of that game was written for the Japanese audience, many who aren't fans of Japanese culture hated how Samus was portrayed.

I have to ask. Is what was shown in that game indicative of how Japan views women (femininity is basically submissive and emotion driven, follows their male superiors unquestionably, even if they are placing them in danger, etc). And if so, does that mean that they still have a 19th century-esque view on gender roles?

Like, even though some have said that it seems normal to Japan, that doesn't make it justified, hence why some aren't fans of Japanese culture since it appears to have too many double-standards for their liking and why they are genuinely worried about the country's view on women, as it appears to be behind the times and sexist.

edited 23rd Jul '14 11:32:23 AM by LDragon2

I theorise it's not so much the fact that Japan is behind the times. It's just that they have an excessive generation gap. Japan practically worships seniority, meaning that younger generations have practically no power.

I can imagine that, in such an environment, it will be hard to get any societal evolution going without having to wait for the entire previous generation to die out, no matter how many people have adopted the new ideas.

edited 23rd Jul '14 12:02:33 PM by Kayeka

Check out Yamato Nadeshiko, Lady of War, Undying Loyalty, My Master, Right or Wrong, Japanese Spirit, and Sempai/Kouhai. I think you will find them relevant.

edited 23rd Jul '14 12:06:52 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

My belief is that Other M just crossed a few unfortunate wires that made it look much more sexist than Sakamoto's intent. Loyalty, whether it is the man or woman being loyal, is a big thing in Japanese culture, and Samus' apparent subservience beyond the bounds of rationality was an effort to demonstrate to Adam that she had matured from the hotheaded young woman who had quit the Navy because she disagreed with Adam's decision. It was, essentially, a long form apology, but due to the writing fumble (and even the Japanese gamers thought Other M was poorly written, so its not nearly due to cultural barriers, they just contributed) made it look hideously sexist.

Samus was trying to be a virtuous foster child and virtuous ex-subordinate by placing herself under Adam's authority, not really trying to be a virtuous "woman."

Japan's culture is heavily Confucian. Meaning that they obey a strict social hierarchy, and part of that hierarchy is that Men Are Better Than Women. Japan, in fact, is considered "the most Confucian" country in the world—even over China, where the doctrine originated.

Unique to Japan, however, is that they view self-sacrifice as the highest virtue one can aspire to. This was also true to a degree in other Confucian countries such as China, but Japan reeeeeeally took it to the extreme. In Japanese philosophy, suffering and sacrificing for the sake of another is considered the height of purity and goodness. It's why the country has been called a "Martyrdom Culture" in the past. For example, if a woman's husband beats her, has an affair, or tells her to do something terrible, her foremost job is to obey to her utmost ability. If the husband's actions were immoral or wrong, it was customary for her to consider what sort of deep problems, inner suffering or burdens this must be placing on him. Her job was to always think earnestly of him, and how she might make things better for him, no matter what.

Of course, reality tends to differ from the ideal. What we know about Japanese history and philosophy is written from the perspective of the rich and powerful (peasants seldom were literate, and women were even less so). It's hard to get a realistic picture of ancient Japan that doesn't cross into Great Man History territory, but it's probable that there were a LOT of non-conformists, particularly amongst the poor.

In general, though, this was/is the cultural zeitgeist of traditional Japanese virtues.

I just read a story arc in Great Teacher Onizuka where a child, who was abused and beaten by his mother's boyfriend/pimp (and tattooed by him, which is Serious Business in Japan), obtains a gun and attempts to avenge himself and his mother's honour, and free her from his power. The mother shows up to the warehouse, armed with a knife... to defend her boyfriend. When he demands it of her, she runs, with tears in her eyes, to stab her own child.

That is fucked up.

Luckily she gets a Get a Hold of Yourself, Man! from the kid's foster caretaker, who lectures her on being a jackass. And he , after attempting to murder the kid himself, gets his ass kicked by Onizuka.

GTO loves to fuck with Japanese-morality tropes in general, but I didn't know the mother could have been influenced by cultural antecedent.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Frankly, no.
First of all, I get the feeling that a few behaviours are in my opinion often misinterpreted by westerners. Just because someone from Japan is acting all nice and cutesy, doesn't mind there is a strong will behind it. You could even call it just an act While it wasn't from Japan, a Korean girl told me pretty much just that, talking about the token resistance during sex. Basically you want sex? Say a high pitched Noooo~<3! You don't want it? Lower your voice and say "Get lost." Direct quote (from memory): "I have no problems to make clear what I want". As usual that doesn't apply to everyone, but in my experience that's the norm. Let me mention the elderly women from before. Those were people that weren't used to get shit from anyone. Not someone who lived a shy and submissive live. I mean, de facto (married) women in Japan have a lot of control over their husband, with the husband for example only getting an allowance, and usually no control over the household income. Real estate agents for example will basically only talk to women. Yes, even if the man is Japanese and the woman doesn't actually speak Japanese (In that extreme case it might usually different, but I read from a western woman about that weird experience). She is expected to make that decision, the guy doesn't really have any say in it.
Rather see it like this: Fictional stories are based in reality, but also try to give people something they don't have in reality.

Pour y voir clair, il suffit souvent de changer la direction de son regard www.xkcd.com/386/

...thath they believe they ought to have.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.