What are your personal "red flags" before reading any fanfic?

Given how incest seems to be a red flag for a majority of people around here (me included), I'm given to wonder why it seems to be so widespread in fanfics (I'm currently a bit into Frozen, so... yeah).

I blame Japan.

I have to admit, Incest is THE hot stuff when it comes to pandering to Otaku and getting them to buy stuff nowadays. I do not think Japan is actually to blame. The Japanese "Incest" Fad is very recent and the one show that deals with incest seriously AND sympathetically (Koi Kaze) doesnt really pander to Incest Fans as it just explores the thing. The characters dont suddenly WUV EACH OTHER AND HAVE INCEST BABIES. People into incest actually says the show makes them sick (If they are casuals because it portrays what it would entail) or its "Too angsty and Depressing" for more "Committed" fans.

I havent actually seen the thing but I've heard a lot of praise(Not from Incest Fans thankfully).

If anything, WESTERN stuff is more drenched in the thing. MAINSTREAM stuff to boot. But then its used as "Shock Values" and not as an endorsement either.

God what did I type. Anyway

TL DR: Incest is recent. I dont support it. It did not come from Japan. It comes from the dark depths of the human souls on BOTH sides of the world.

I can't say for other fandoms, but the Frozen fandom is prevalent to incest because of Idina Menzel's prominence as an LGBT icon. Plus, "Let It Go" has some damn strong Coming-Out Story vibes.

God please tell me this doesnt mean LGBT people like incest. PLEASE. Lie if you must!

I think there getting at Elsa seems to have lesbian vibes, we must pair her with another woman, the only other main woman (and one she has a close relationship with) is her sister. She is in (romantic) love with her sister.

Personally I like to imagine Elsa as aromantic, because I will take my imaginary representation where I can get it, and I don't want her paired with anyone (and asexual doesn't work because it's a Disney show and nobody has sex, besides if she was asexual but not aromantic she would still be presumably open to a relationship, well maybe not she has some issues to work out, that would make dating less appealing to her). But that's getting off topic.

edited 24th Mar '15 5:38:43 PM by phantom1

It's also prevalent in the Chronicles Of Narnia fandom. I can't go to the Narnia page at fanfiction.net without at least one Edmund/Lucy or Peter/Susan fic popping up.

I really wish they wouldn't do that, I mean there are so few non-romantic relationships already without pairing siblings together (thankfully even most sibling incest shippers tend to shy back from Parental Incest, unless they're close in age and one didn't raise the other, at least in my experience if I'm wrong please don't correct me but instead let me keep my blissful ignorance).

edited 24th Mar '15 6:33:54 PM by phantom1

Yeah.... I depise the Anna/Elsa slash on the premise that's it is incest. That is why I added that detail in the Warp That Aesop page.

Must've been a hidden rule of the internet.

Rule Something: If the two leads are the same gender, expect a lot of slash. Espeically if they're siblings.

edited 24th Mar '15 6:44:17 PM by TheFarmboy

I love you Sibling! I dont want to assume your gender or lack of it so I go with that word. I DO love you a lot, in way you will hopefully find non-creepy. Its definitely not romantic or sexual though.

Im gay. So its DEFINITELY worrying that LGBT people seem to be into incest. Nah. That's definitely not the case. Its just some deviant circles people associates with LGBT but are different from them. Dont correct me, Im scared.

People lately want to associate terrible causes like Pedophilia and Incest to LGBT because they "ARE PROSECUTING ME AND MY LOOOOOOOOOOOVE!". What people dont realize is that LGBT people had to deal with prejudice that stemmed about those VERY THINGS. Its not that LGBT was a dirty thing that got accepted. Its a NORMAL thing that people finally realized did NOT lead into incest or pedophilia. That's it. They are setting back gay rights by pulling this shit.

EDIT: I want to make this clear. I do not think anyone in this thread thinks LGBT people like incest or anything like that. Everyone here is awesome.

edited 24th Mar '15 6:49:54 PM by AegisP

I actually get really, really pissed with authors who try to desquick their romances by making an AU to adjust ages or familial relationships. They want all of the existing interplay between the characters with none of the work.

Sister (though yes lack of gender assumptions is good), and thanks, I love you in a non-creepy way too . Which is to say I know what you mean. (Unless you don't mean me, than sorry for making it weird).

Oh yeah that happens too, and I have heard of that old stereotype, because I am weirdly fond of documentaries and articles sometimes. Well about pedophilia not incest, though I have heard some modern conservative types talking about how allowing gay marriage would allow bestiality. But yeah I don't think gay people are accepted me with my sibling or an underage kid (who can't consent) is the next step, is really something I like, but if you stumble upon dark enough corners of the internet it can come up.

But non disturbing or at least less disturbing fanfic stuff. I personally dislike bad grammar or spelling from native speakers.

edited 24th Mar '15 7:29:09 PM by phantom1

I definitely meant it for you Sister.

Something that worries me is that people dont see any relationship without sex as a REAL relationship. So they feel ANY non-antagonistic relationship must be ROMANTIC AND SEXY. God.

I actually met someone who was psychologically unstable and wanted to have sex with their (Im not disclosing gender) father. Now they HATE incest. It actually led to the father leaving the house. Incest is just BAD.

Thank you Sibling (it occurs to me I am in the same situation about not knowing your gender or lack there of).

Yes it does get a little tiresome, it either needs romance or sex (and if it's sexual it also has to be romantic, and if it's romantic it also has to be sexual, but that seems to be in canon too). Especially as even antagonistic relationships can get the Foe Yay treatment.

That's too bad, I mean the whole situation, that they would fall in love with their father in the first place.

edited 24th Mar '15 7:40:39 PM by phantom1

That is basically my take on the Anna/Elsa pairing: that the internet (as a whole, mind) seems literally incapable of processing a relationship that's non-romantic/sexual. Any kind of strong relationship gets spun to kissing and sex, regardless of context, and it just so happens that family members can be real close.

There's also the fact that the Anna/Elsa pairing goes against and completely misses the point of the movie's message of loving family and not plunging yourself into the first romance you see. It's a point I've made many times, only because I think it's the worst aspect of it.

As for incest, there are cases of incest being inherent in the source material, so I don't really see problems with building off that if you can do it well. Otherwise, yeah, best to avoid.

Thanks Sister. Im a Cis (OH NOES) Gay Guy.

I would really love more meaningful non-sexual non-romantic relantionships. Despite actually having an active sexuality I think such relationships are massively interestings and REALLY unexplored by writers. Hell, a protagonist like my sis above could be pretty interesting if done right. Many pseudo feminist writers always take pride in making stories where the girl doesnt hitch in the end but most just pull a Brave and have the movie populated with "Ugly" guys the main would never be interested in (And that is VISIBLY interested in that one hunky guy, no lesbos here!) instead of just making the plot not revolve about that or GASP! Make the main GENUINELY UNINTERESTED IN Romance or Sex.

I would say that most shipping/incest/whatever fics are made by hormonal teens, that stuff messes with your brain. (As intended, of course. Kek)

@Watchtower: Thanks. You perfectly nailed the problem and what I think is really stupid about that particular shipping. Come to think of it, the fact that the internet seems unable to deal with a strong relationship without making it romantic or sexual explains a lot of other ships that I find ridiculous or downright squicky (incest or not).

Speaking of yet other red flags, the lack of capitalization with the names of people. And that it happens not only a few times, but repeatedly in the same chapter. Sure, some typos are acceptable, but the moment you do it more than once is a sign that you're doing something wrong.

Also, fanfics which look like they were never proofread or beta'd.

I was going to make the point about Frozen's incest stuff being the result of people sucking at differentiating between romantic and familial love, but I think Watchtower summed it up pretty well. I don't think it really has a lot to do with LGBT stuff; it's just an unfortunate coincidence.

@Aegis: I know what you mean. It's extremely rare to find a story in any medium that doesn't have romance shoved into it somewhere. Friendshipping fics are a thing, but it's hard to find ones that don't take a hard turn into actual romantic shipping.

@Aegis Brother, Yes that would be good to, I know there is a certain dislike of that because quite often people assume that aromantic asexual is the default for asexuals, but that doesn't mean that, that shouldn't be done, because it's still a thing. Yes I've never gotten why lack of an interest in the "opposite" sex is considered a case of being gay if you aren't also interested in the same-sex, I guess it is sometimes used in stuff like cartoons to imply someone is gay, but still it's a bit of a leap to be made.

That annoys me too. What I should do is start offering my help to those writers (I'm actually one of the few beta readers who's beta tag isn't just for show) and if they refuse, say they don't need it, or just keep uploading chapters with poor writing, blacklist them.

And this would be why I don't get the majority of shipping. I've pretty much never had shipping goggles, and can't see why fandoms see certain things as romantic and certain things as not. Granted, being asexual myself doesn't help... but still, caring about people doesn't have anything to do with being attracted to them. And it does send some really weird (and at times uncomfortable) messages when most works seem to imply that relationships only "mean something" or are "real" when something physical is also going on in the relationship.

Yes I know, I just want more platonic relationships too, but that might just be because I'm aromantic, like every show seems to have two characters (a man and woman, or a boy and a girl usually, because of heteronormativity) who were friends since childhood and insist they are just friends and 9 times out of 10 they wind up together, because of course friendship isn't a real important thing it's a front or consolation prize. Or as you noted in most media for adults (and even sometimes kids though obviously not expressed in the same way) there needs to be physical attraction for it to be a real relationship. Also friendships don't count as meaningful relationships. It has to be a romantic relationship with sexual attraction.