Disney/Pixar In General

Is this the first Disney movie, Pixar or otherwise, to be set entirely in Italy?

Pinocchio.

Yeah, an Italian clockmaker sleeping with a gun under his pillow. No guessing needed where that was made if you didn't know.

I always thought it was Austria or Sweeden. But I haven't seen the original animated movies since I was a kid.

I think the book was Austria, and the movie was more suggestive of Italy.

Oh right. There was that puppeteer guy named Stromboli, which is Italian food. But I did say this was the first Disney movie to be set entirely in Italy since Pleasure Island and Monstro in the ocean are things.

I don't know how many Pinocchio renditions there are out there, but I've had to study the original Collodi story for a children's lit course and it's pretty... non-specific? The settings are like a school or a carnival or other places. They're not proper noun locations really.

But Collodi was a very angry very cynical Italian Man so it feels logical to set it there.

Idk, I guess the movie clothing always made me think of it being more Northern-related where Collodi was of Florence, Tuscany.

Just rewatched Snow White... and damn, I didn't notice the attention to the shadow animations considering the lack of shadows in future Disney feature films I've seen lately. Snow White is really ahead of its time.

Most people wouldn't think of it this way, but Snow White really is one of the darkest Disney movies out there. Maybe not Pinocchio or Hunchback tier, but way up there.

I seriously think it all has to do with the decision Oda made to make her a serious villain instead of cartoonish as she was originally planned.

I didnt know Oda worked for Disney—-

Nonono, the book is purely fantastical (there are talking fishes, rabbits who carry a coffin, a virgin Mary-like fairy and such) but is set in Italy as in the beginning there is a carabiniere (a kind of police force that exists only in Italy) . It was written by Collodi who was an Italian writer, more specifically from Tuscany, in fact there are terms from Tuscan dialect like "grullerello" a nicer version of "grullo" (which means stupid/dumb)

Well, yes, I know where he was from and all. I did study the book. However, if the setting was derived from specific Italian terms and their local uses, than that's something that wasn't in my copy. The translation I had just, well, translated them. No harm no foul.

You really would need the original language edition to make that determination, though.

Yeah. You spoke like you already were sure of the original Collodi story. I love translations and dubs/subs as much as anyone but the original Collodi story is the italian version.

Edited by AegisP on Aug 1st 2020 at 4:41:53 AM

Oh sorry, I wasn't replying to you, but the guy who said the book is set in Austria

For the most part, you're actually right: it's set in a fantastical world, although based off Italy since it had elements of the time (and since I read it in the original language, there are a lot old/dialectal terms)

Little fun fact: in the Italian dub of the Disney movie, Mangia fuoco (fire eater) keeps his original name while Stromboli is just a nickname, so for most part of the movie he's referred to with his original name

Edited by fishysaur on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:39:18 AM

By the way,in the original story there's an absolute Tearjerker with the character called Candlewick (Lampwick in movies) where he meets Pinocchio and basically dies in a barn from overwork as a donkey

I recall this part vividly when it was read to me as a child

And I thought the Disney version was horrifyingly depressing enough...

Yeah, it's amazing that the Disney version was actually toned down.

I consider Pinocchio one of the bleakest movies about childhood Disney has ever made.

Well sort of, Disney actually made the other villains darker, Stromboli's Noble Demon side and the two con-men's Laser-Guided Karma are abolished completely (though the latter would have been kept in early plans).

But yeah Pinocchio is a film that's harder to watch now with all the Fridge Horror and Protagonist-Centered Morality about it. Remember less than 30 years later they went out of their way to edit Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer because they realised just forgetting about the Misfit Toys was an Esoteric Happy Ending. Scare 'Em Straight just wasn't the thing for heartwarming family movies anymore.

Even Hunchback of Notre Dame had a Disneyfied Happy Ending where the bad guy got what they deserved and the heroes survived and most loose ends resolved. You just leave with an awkward bittersweet feel from the end of Pinocchio.

Edited by Psi001 on Aug 1st 2020 at 8:20:19 PM

I wouldn't call Piccochio an example of Protagonist-Centered Morality.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 1st 2020 at 12:21:57 PM

It is protagonist centred in that Pinocchio gets a chance to redeem himself, while the other bad children are irrevocably condemned to a life of slavery and hard labour, transformed into donkeys. Pinocchio was just as naughty as the other children,a nd yet he is forgiven while the others are harshly condemned and effectively thrown away.

It is a very similar morality, in fact, to Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist, where Oliver's noble birth somehow protects him from moral degradation by the criminals around him, and is unquestioningly taken up into high society again once this birthright is discovered, while the other orphans, who do not have this luxury of being born of nobility, are left to rot and punished harshly for the crime of being corrupted by the world they are forced to live in.

These old stories were incredibly harsh on children, as you can tell.

That's not the right trope. The Correct trope is Only the Leads Get a Happy Ending

And Sure Enough, the very pic is Pinnochio! I swear I didnt know that was teh image before I told you guys. I was right! Hahahahalol!

Edited by AegisP on Aug 1st 2020 at 12:57:18 PM

I think you are right, a better fit would perhaps be Moral Myopia.

There are definitely some double standards going on about how Pinocchio is treated versus the other kids (who may be orphans?).

Edit: That's a good one, yeah.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:01:35 AM

That's still Only the Leads Get a Happy Ending, Double Standard would be if the reason for Pinocchio getting spared was him being a different race, gender, age, etc.

Edited by VengefulBale on Aug 1st 2020 at 4:45:48 AM