Male Roles Vs. Female Roles in Fiction: Discussion/Analysis/Troperwank

I think that will vary depending on its execution. I don't think there's anything inherently sexist about it, a lot of the more famous examples are male after all (James Bond and the entire spy genre that is derived from it being numero uno). When it comes to female heroes, it will depends on where you are on the sex positive to sex negative feminism spectrum to a certain degree - the former will see a woman successfully using her femininity and sex appeal as tools to achieve a goal as something empowering while the latter would see it as something that is degrading for a woman to have to do.

Also what said, a one-dimensional seductress is no good.

You also have to expect people will have resistance to it because the general idea is that sex is a passive stuff for woman: they get fuck, dont fuck which is why female seductress and male seductress feel diferent even when they arent.

Heroic Seductress is a step up from The Vamp as far as female representation goes, mainly because the latter is so dominant and the former introduces some variation for female roles which tend to be more limited compared to men. As well as averting Sex Is Evil and the tendency for women and sexuality to be correlated in an unflattering fashion. The problem as M84 pointed out is if they are reduced to their sexuality rather than portrayed as 3D characters given the existing history of female objectification and sexualization, or if it becomes a heavily dominant trope of its own, because then you're just exchanging one cliche for another instead of diversifying the pool like intended.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 13th 2019 at 1:13:35 PM

''Re: Kylo Ren being a loser'x

I'm not sure that's meant to be social commentary as simply who his character is. Not all story beats that have real life relevance are meant to be a statement overwhelming their place in-universe.

He's a school shooter wannabe Edgelord. It's not meant to be funny but tragic.

I'm not so sure that's an intentional thing rather than fan impression. Like an EU comic I saw people talk about has him winning the respect of a clone trooper who served under Vader by outdoing him in beating a group of aliens and another that was announced had a plot summary that it would deal with what happened at Luke's academy saying, the other students thought he killed Luke when he brought the hut down after finding Luke staring at him with an active lightsaber and so went after him so he ran to the Knights of Ren for protection since he knew of them from helping Luke fight them.

Edited by doineedaname on Nov 20th 2019 at 5:17:13 AM

So remember back when I talked about Sindel in Mortal Kombat and how it seemed they were retconning her character to being Evil All Along?

Well they did as can be seen in her dialogue intros and MK 11 ending.

In this Kombat Kast video, Stephanie Brownback a Q&A analyst for NRS (starting at 9:18) states she prefers this new take because there was a supposed disconnect between how Sindel looked and her being a benevolent queen. Basically, Sindel looked like a stereotypical evil queen but is an in fact an innocent who is under mind control but the idea is that now her look "makes sense".

Yeah.

[[ https://torterragarden.tumblr.com/post/189318115454/so-from-what-i-heard-the-sindel-retcon-was-partly#notesHere's a fan's take on it and past versions of Sindel]].

Edited by windleopard on Nov 26th 2019 at 11:52:45 AM

Frankly, I much prefer Evil Sindel.

I like that Kitana had a romanticized view of her mother and that she never really knew her at all. Mind you, I don't feel much need to keep canon that Khan took the Queen of Edenia as a Sex Slave.

Less of Monster Misogyny.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 27th 2019 at 12:26:10 PM

Remember this game still has Kahn making rape threats towards Cassie.

The Monster Misogyny is still there. And I'd prefer the new "woke" Netherealm Studios not erase a story about a victimized woman who took back her fate and life from the man who hurt her to replace it with yet another female villain defined by her avarice and sexuality.

Having female characters being victimized in some way is not in and of itself bad writing so long as you make it a point to focus on their perspective on it.

As another poster said, why are we trying to make Shao Kahn of all characters look like an enlightened man who respects consent?

Edited by windleopard on Nov 27th 2019 at 12:52:23 PM

Is not about Shao Khan, Is mostly the role of sindel and she Being a Sort of plot divace in MK 3.

And also, because it add nothing to shao Khan or Kitana as a history, the Former Is already Uber evil and the second Is the victim try to regin her life, sindel Sort exist there

Sindel being both Evil All Along and an empowering fantasy of a woman taking back control of herself from a man are not mutually exclusive, but NRS took the easy way out and made her yet another villain defined by her sexuality instead of her motives.

yeah, is funny that this sindel have more in comon with mileena than kitana a this point.

The irony with them using Dark Is Evil as a justification for this retcon is that Sindel arguably looks more benevolent now than she did before.

"This character looked evil so we're going to make her actually evil".

That strikes me as one of the weirder motivations for characterization changes.

MK 11 is filled to the brim with nonsensical retcons and character derailments. I still find the Cassie Cage change (going from being butch, the main character, and sensible to being a vapid valley girl who is constantly referencing memes and Hip Youth Stuff) to be really repugnant. The number of jokes I’ve seen about how someone with a bimbo fetish must have gotten onto the writing staff...

MK 11 has a very surface level degree of “girl power!” but actually winds up being less feminist than MKX was.

Can you said why Cassie Is butch? Or sensible? She Was a troll and kind of a Dick in MKX

I mean... the butch thing was just everything about how she dressed and presented herself? Short hair, low voice, she had an alt where she wore a tuxedo, so on so forth.

Being voiced by Ashley Burch helped, since she has a history of voicing butch characters.

And she was sensible because she was the team leader who kept trying to rein in Kung Jin when he went off half cocked.

about butch I cant said, I mean Cassie is also a military brat as well and daughter of sonya.

And keeping a rein on kung jin....she really didnt in fact, Kung jin in fact act without her permission and interrupt the execution kotal khan was carring, sure it was for a good cause but it overstep her.

Yeah, that’s... exactly what I was talking about. She was the one trying to stop him. Like. These aren’t really debatable facts about her character in MKX, they’re right there in the text.

Nobody could look at her in MKX and then in MK 11 and say they didn’t change her. They unquestionably did, and they made her a vapid teenager stereotype.

Considering one of her X fatalities involved taking a selfie it doesn't sound that new of an aspect. Sounds like it is part Cassie Cage just as much as her ending displays her as leader for the next generation of the defenders of Earthrealm.

Alas, Cassie got Hot Rodded.

It's hard to pass the torch when the Elders come back.

Now, I've not played the game so correct me if I'm getting this wrong, smokeycut, but the problem is that there's a difference between "new aspect" and "overemphasized aspect that warps the character", which is usually part of how stereotypes work: overemphasized characteristics.

Well her mother just died so her being in a snit is understandable. I like how she calls out Young Sonya Blade for questioning her orders.

Things Is....that Is not Being sensible, Is trying to be a leader, that it.

And no Being main Is because MK have rotating cast of main since DA: first shujinko, them raven, follow by Cassie, MK 11 in fact dosent have a single main

So there's this movie coming out, called Richard Jewell which tells the story about the security guard who evacuated the area during the 1996 Atlanta bombing but was later accused of planting the bomb himself. Criticism has arisen, however, in regards to what appears to be some artistic license in regards to Olivia Wilde's character, real life journalist Kathy Scruggs.

The article also contains a link to another one about the stereotype of female journalists being irrational, unethical and incompetent.

Edited by windleopard on Dec 4th 2019 at 9:04:09 AM

(Flashbacks to that journalist from Iron Man and Iron Man 2)

There was no quid pro quo! She was just attracted to Tony!