Follow TV Tropes

Following

Misused: Creators Pet

Go To

Jul 5th 2012 at 10:59:39 PM

I've noticed there's been an issue with Creator's Pet for some time as a lot of people seem to get the impression it's either "The Scrappy but worse" or "The Scrappy but with a big role". Even with what appear to be some pretty clear criteria, I've seen attempts to add entries on other works pages that are missing one or more of the criteria. Going through the page itself, there seems to be a lot of examples that are missing the criteria as well.

While my first thought is to conduct a cleanup and only keep that which is clearly hitting all four rules, or do that AND a tighter pass at the trope definition so less people are confused. I think there may still be some holdovers from when the trope was still The Wesley that are making things a little muddier for newer tropers.

Jul 5th 2012 at 11:06:06 PM

aaaaand I'm sorry, I totally had a brainfart and screwed up the post title >_<

eX 94. Grandmaster of Shark
94. Grandmaster of Shark
Jul 6th 2012 at 1:36:24 AM

I don't think that it is an issue of muddy definitions and more one of a personal agenda. The criteria are pretty strict already, we just need to actually enforce them. But when people hold a grudge against a certain character, and with a Creator's Pet, this is always the case, they like to express that on the page. So this is more a problem of Square Peg, Round Trope. People want to add to the page, regardless of the definition.

edited 6th Jul '12 1:38:54 AM by eX

Feather7603 Devil's Advocate from Yggdrasil
Jul 6th 2012 at 2:27:07 AM

Well, a general cleanup would be a good idea.

Anything else that can be done? Due to the trope's nature (and above explanation), I don't think changing the definition or name would help.

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
Stratadrake Dragon Writer
Dragon Writer
Jul 6th 2012 at 8:21:15 AM

But when people hold a grudge against a certain character, and with a Creator's Pet this is always the case, they like to express that on the page.
Really now?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
Jul 6th 2012 at 9:49:36 AM

^ One of the defining points of Creator's Pet is that the character is a scrappy. e X didn't say anything about whether the grudge was reasonable or not.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Jul 6th 2012 at 10:05:39 AM

I think we have too many scrappy tropes. why do we have this one?

SeptimusHeap from Bern, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Jul 6th 2012 at 10:06:38 AM

Because excessive author favoritism is often both cause and consequence of scrappydom.

ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Jul 6th 2012 at 10:22:20 AM

Because people like to complain.

I think what we need here is an organized clean-up effort. I don't know what else we can do to make the trope clearer - people are already not reading the description and I don't think a rename will help.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
eX 94. Grandmaster of Shark
94. Grandmaster of Shark
Jul 6th 2012 at 11:51:07 AM

Really now?

As Nohbody said, that the character has a negative reputation is one of the requirements for the trope, so yes, really now. And what I am saying is that this leads to people trying to force this on a character, to make them "objectively bad". It's the same phenomenon we have with badass or other overused positive tropes.

I think the biggest problem is the second point. Unless we actually have Word of God that a character is favored by a writer, this is going to be controversial, since a lot of people will simply assume that it is the case, just because a hated character gets screen time at all.

edited 13th Jul '12 12:29:30 PM by eX

Jul 6th 2012 at 3:50:18 PM

In the case of the second criteria, I see a lot of people claim that a character is "favored" simply because the writing staff isn't sharing the same overbearing hatred for a character certain parts of the fandom does. I mean, if it's a main character with The Scrappy status, it's silly to expect the writers to evict the character, storyline problems be damned.

lu127 Paper Master from 空蝉丸
Jul 6th 2012 at 8:49:51 PM

Well, we could just do a dedicated cleanup and lock the subpages as la Complete Monster.

Jul 6th 2012 at 10:45:08 PM

I'm definitely willing to participate in a clean up as my schedule permits. As I said, due to the topic's level of controversy, I didn't want to start one on my own lest I cause other problems.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 13th 2012 at 8:18:59 AM

I drove the initial rename of this trope from The Wesley and in the process I worked on defining the specific criteria for it. If people are continuing to misuse the trope for any character they don't like, then it definitely needs a cleanup again.

Edit: Rebochan, I just saw the little scuffle between you and QueenofSwords over CreatorsPet.Live Action TV. That example did have a comment saying to leave it alone. Please don't pull stuff like that.

edited 13th Jul '12 8:23:00 AM by Fighteer

TV Tropes Changelog -- keep track of updates to the site!
SeptimusHeap from Bern, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Jul 13th 2012 at 8:20:56 AM

What is particularly annoying about Creator's Pet is the potholing. It works like a Zero Context Example, thus it waters down the trope.

I almost wish there was some way to set a page's tech so that it breaks any potholes leading to it.

Jul 13th 2012 at 11:33:28 AM

I apologize, but I don't know where that note came from or why. As I mentioned on Ask The Tropers, the entry in question seems to be missing 3 out of 4 criteria, so I'm not sure why there's a "don't edit this" note.

nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Jul 13th 2012 at 2:44:16 PM

I think a Complete Monster style cleanup might be a good idea, but the fact that one of the criteria is basically impossible to measure would make very difficult to implement.

Jul 13th 2012 at 3:22:48 PM

Well, here's our current criteria list, as quoted from the page:

Keep in mind that this isn't "The Scrappy with a big role", nor is it the Canon Sue, although there's a lot of overlap in both cases. The Creator's Pet is a combination of being:

  • Hated by fans (The Scrappy)
  • Loved (or worshipped) by the writers
  • Put into big scenes for no reason (Character Focus)
  • Talked up by the other characters (Character Shilling)

Unless it meets all of these criteria, then it doesn't fit.

It seems like this is a YMMV trope, but having four hardlined criteria to qualify makes it a stricter trope.

Jul 15th 2012 at 4:14:35 PM

Well, there doesn't seem to be a lot of movement, though everyone seems to agree the page needs work. I can start trying to set up sandbox pages if needed, but I already expressed concern about unsigned notes for examples that do not fit the criteria.

Jul 15th 2012 at 5:16:53 PM

How are we supposed to know the "Loved (or worshipped) by the writers" without knowledge from the writers themselves?

Jul 15th 2012 at 7:10:49 PM

Some writers are more open than others. Wesley, the former Trope Namer, was pretty obviously Gene Roddenberry's stand-in due to not just his name, but comments from the creative staff.

ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Jul 16th 2012 at 8:02:50 AM

I don't think it'd be a bad thing to restrict this to instances where you have a Word of God. It really can't be a Creator's Pet if the creators don't love the character.

Although instances where the character is named for or modeled on the creator or someone dear to the creator is probably a good enough indication.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Jul 16th 2012 at 8:13:23 AM

I don't know if we should require explicit word of god. If the writer all-of-a-sudden starts sticking a new character into every other scene, and having the entire plot revolve around them, do we need any more confirmation than that?

Stratadrake Dragon Writer
Dragon Writer
Jul 16th 2012 at 8:18:16 AM

^ That right there is relatively objective; the character analogue of a Plot Tumor. Which may or may not be what Character Focus already handles.

edited 16th Jul '12 8:19:00 AM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jul 16th 2012 at 8:27:18 AM

It tends to be fairly obvious when a minor character suddenly gets vastly more screen time and Character Shilling then they notionally deserve. However, that alone does not qualify them for this trope. It is also necessary that the character be The Scrappy, which means that a large portion of the fanbase feel that they are a detriment to the work.

The debate on this trope seems to have focused a bit on the whole "beloved by the creator" thing, but we need to remember that Tropes Are Not Bad, and just because a character is the author's favorite doesn't mean it's a bad character.

After all, good old Wesley Crusher wouldn't have been the original Trope Namer if Gene Roddenberry's favoritism towards him hadn't been detrimental to the show.

edited 16th Jul '12 8:28:28 AM by Fighteer

TV Tropes Changelog -- keep track of updates to the site!

Total posts: 833
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report