Page Restoration Petitions

Yes, the manga of ___ had a good plot, but there were just too many nekkid kids in it.

My friend was reviewing the manga, actually. She had to stop because the host of the forum she was doing it on complained about the content. It was amusing while it lasted.

-Googles KnJ, knowing nothing about it-

...well, at least one of the main girls is old enough to have boobs?

That girl is nine...

Aaahrglegarble...

Thought she was ten.

Moving on, though.

Any luck on figuring out a new P5 member?

edited 5th Jul '12 12:53:09 PM by Hydronix

Well, you know how all those growth hormones in our milk are making kids go through puberty earlier and earlier...

edited 5th Jul '12 12:58:22 PM by Raidouthe21st

They increase in age through the manga, but are never old enough to ...what's the word? make all that nudity OK?

argh, I can't articulate myself.

edited 5th Jul '12 1:10:04 PM by animeg3282

It's not so much the nudity as what happens during it. Way too much sexualization. Haven't fully seen the Anime, though. Can't find a non-download version, but it's supposed to be somewhat cleaner.

Anyway...

Anyone got a work that you think we should re-review?

edited 5th Jul '12 1:09:55 PM by Komodin

Tempted to suggest Boku No Pico just for giggles, but someone might actually think I'm serious.

Although supposedly there was an official censored release of it. Still, I don't think you can censor that one enough to make it work for us.

edited 5th Jul '12 1:12:01 PM by Catbert

Pico to Chico.

EDIT: Never mind, conversation already over by the time I posted this.

edited 5th Jul '12 1:11:57 PM by HamburgerTime

Actually wanted to ask something about Boku no Pico. It's referenced as a Shout-Out in Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Should I take that example off of their Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei page?

Under Grand Hotel. I'm still campaigning for it on the basis that there's more prison plot than sex.

Unless I'm mistaken, things like references or small shout outs aren't being given the complete white wash treatment.

As far as I know, we haven't fully decided on doing anything but getting rid of potholes to cut articles.

edited 5th Jul '12 1:35:19 PM by KuroBaraHime

Shout outs and stuff should be fine. It's one thing to not want to host pages over less than reputable works, it's another to stick our fingers in our ears and pretend they don't exist.

Shima's convinced me (thanks to the PPPPP thread!) Adding a second angel to Under Grand Hotel.

And I'll add the third. It's safe.

I'd like to argue for Popotan to be restored. As far as I know, it was cut because of child nudity perceived to exist with the intention to titillate, which I think is unduly. In any case, might someone from 5P care to enlighten us on exactly what was considered so dangerous (as in, was it a specific event or just in general, because it would be easier for both supporters and detractors to explain our opinions if it's the former)?

The P5 already made their cut decision, and it is doubtful that further evidence shall sway them. If you have any, however, feel free to put it forward.

Gladly, but it would help if they told me what the problem is to begin with. It seems like it was an episode in particular that irked them, and I'd like to know which one it was (I think I know the answer, but I can't be certain).

By the way, I know this is neither here nor there, but you have a hottip error on your Tropers page.

EDIT: No pun intended. I swear.

edited 7th Jul '12 12:26:19 PM by Lindaeus

There is a thread about Popotan here. It looks like the first episode alone had some significant content issues, and that later ones were deemed equally unacceptable.

I know about that thread. The reason I'm asking is because their arguments aren't very clear. If you're going to lock pages based on four people's opinions, the least you could do is elaborate when the other users of the site have questions.

But I'll just cut to the chase if that's what you want. Incoming Wall of Text.

a) It's true that the very first episode has an underage boy (Daichi) tripping and getting stuck between the breasts of an older woman (Ai), but it's clear to anyone who's watched more than that episode that it's played for comedy. Daichi doesn't even appear in the series again save for the last episode (and episode 7, but by then he's thirty years older), so there are absolutely no hints whatsoever that the two have a sexual relation. Furthermore, the beef seems to be with sexualising children, and it isn't Daichi who's being sexualised in the above mentioned incident, it's Ai. It's juvenile, sure, but it's not child molestation.

b) Speaking of sexualising children, I'm not denying that the youngest girl of the ensemble (Mii) is shown naked plenty of times, but I really don't think her scenes are meant to be fanservice either. I'll go through the "biggest offenders", just to be clear:

Ep. 1 - Mii tries to enter the bath while Daichi's already in it. It doesn't happen. Played for laughs. Ep. 3 - Mii is shown trying on a bra that's too big. The entire scene is less than five seconds long. Played for laughs. Ep. 8 - Mii hugs (for lack of a better word) Nono (another child) while they're taking a bath. The focus of the scene is their budding friendship. Played for laughs.

As for any other scene where Mii is unclothed, they're strictly neutral. Like I stated above, the problem would be if the animators sexualised her in some way or another, but these scenes are on par with early Dragon Ball; in fact, I'd say it's even less risqué, since no one's genitals are flashing.

For a similar example, we have the filmatizations of Astrid Lindgren's Madicken, Du är inte klok, Madicken (also known as You're Out of Your Mind, Maggie) and Madicken på Junibacken (Madicken at June Hill). Together, the films feature two scenes where two/four child acresses, at least two under the age of ten years, are shown naked (genitals and all) for a long period of time. In context, the scenes are Madicken and her younger sister changing clothes, and Madicken and her friends bathing after having received treatment for lice. In neither of the scenes are the children sexualised, despite being naked, and that's because it's very possible to portray nude children in a neutral way, in order to show them as innocent or simply being children. Again, if a work uses nude children to titillate, then there would be a problem, but as it stands, nudity in itself isn't erotic unless the viewer really wants it to be, and that says more about the viewer than the work if you ask me.

c) If you're going to remove a page because you infer the nudity to be used in a titillating way, then there are two important points that need to be addressed first. The first is that I sincerely doubt Mii is meant to be erotic because, as I know all members of 5p are aware, Popotan is based on an adult visual novel, but the anime adaptation shares only the title and the characters with its source material. If Shinichiro Kimura wanted to make an anime with the purpose of pleasing the kind of people you obviously don't care a lot for, don't you think he would have followed the novel? Don't you think he would have made something more akin to Eiken, a series that would pretty much have been a hardcore pornographic anime if you took away all the skimpy bikinis? Instead, he made a series about a family moving through time and the complications that sort of lifestyle would bring, and it just so happens to feature the sisters bathing, a pastime that, in Japan, is meant for family bonding. There's a justification behind every one of the scenes in Popotan containing child nudity; it's either because Mii is bathing with her family (or friend, as in the above mentioned case), or she's simply being Mi, not because the creators wanted to showcase her. Furthermore, if you want a series that more or less does exploit children, look no further than Gunslinger Girl. It's documented on this very site that what appeared to be a case of deconstructing lolicon was later revealed to be played entirely straight, and even more so in the second season. And look what we have here, a TV Tropes page on that very series. If Popotan has been booted for having child nudity, how come Gunslinger Girl is still on here, despite directly pandering to the type of people you've shown time and time again that you don't want to pander to? There's also Pani Poni Dash!, which uses shots of its ten years old protagonist in fetishistic outfits as intertitles (I think those were intertitles, at least; nevertheless, I know for sure that the shots were used at some point). This is the sort of sexualisation of children that TV Tropes is against, not simple nudity, and yet here they are.

Yes, of course someone might find Popotan to be erotic. You can call any instance of nudity erotic if you want to, but the fact remains that Popotan can still be called neutral. Suggestive clothing and actions cannot, but as this post has at least attempted to prove, there's none of that in this anime.

There, that's my reasoning. If you're still going to object, please explain why you think these specific points don't hold any water.

Also, I'm an open-minded guy. If I'm wrong about the examples I've given to compare to Popotan, feel free to say so. Considering what this site is currently going through, it's important we know what we're doing and remain respectful, no matter what opinions the other side may have.