Content Policy Change

If it isn't sexualized, it's not paedophilia. Exact distinctions can be worked out by the 5Ps

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I know there are people who aren't totally sold on this; people between the extremes of "implacably opposed" and "joyously embracing", who, perhaps, are resigned to the fact that it's happening and hope for the best*

but fear it might turn out badly. At least some of us will be reassured if 5P decisions are somewhat predictable. To me this means specific guidelines they will apply

edited 17th Apr '12 11:41:50 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

The problem is that there simply aren't any objective criteria for something like that. That's why we needed the council in the first place. If it were at all possible to have a strict set of guidelines, we could just tell everyone to abide by them rather than needing the 5P to make the call. The closest we've gotten to an objective definition of porn is "A work designed solely to arouse the viewer" and since we can't really objectively know what the intent behind it was, we have to sort of rely on interpretation.

Reaction Image Repository

@Hershele - Japanese Teeth did a pretty good job of making the point I was going to.

Look, let's wait until the first panel discussion and we'll see how it goes.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Herse,

Rumour has it there is going to be an appeals process but the evidence had better be damm good

Dutch Lesbian

Do we know when the panel will start?

I believe it's when enough people who have accepted the position. Though Eddie might need to finish a little bit of coding as well.

I'm not asking for strict guidelines, I'm asking for vague guidelines. The thing I'm not happy about is "we can't have exact rules about duration and page count because of Rules Lawyering*

so the only possible alternative is not to have any criteria at all*

which I maintain is not

"

It's fairly obvious that the example I keep coming back to, Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, is not going to lose its page. But is there a specific reason it's not going to lose its page, or is it no more and no less than that if it came to a vote it would obviously be 5-0 to keep?

I'm fine with defining porn as "a work made approximately solely to arouse the viewer." That still leaves a few judgment calls, but not nearly as many as defining it as "a work that is porn"

edited 17th Apr '12 12:03:45 PM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

The panel will start when they have the tools to do so, I believe.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

There is only one person doing the coding, and he's a busy man. Now that we have our members, however, he should be on it. They don't call him Fast Eddie for nothing.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

How many recs are to be checked? Anyone an idea about that?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Starting with fanfic? I guess they are throwing them into the deep end.

Well, late to the party but glad to see the panel has been chosen. Thanks to all 5 of you for taking on this not-altogether-pleasant duty, and good luck.

Shimaspawn:

This seems like a good short-term solution. Long-term, when Fast Eddie and/or Janitor have the time to code it, I think it would be better for the flags to be one-use only. Once an item is flagged, the flag button changes to say "page flagged." After the panel reviews it, if they decide to keep it, the button just goes away.

Best Of:

Hahah, that's great.

Regarding the earlier idea about the panel members posting anonymously: it would probably be possible using sockpuppets, if desired. But if those who harrass the panel are dealt with quickly, it proably wouldn't be needed.

edited 17th Apr '12 12:07:27 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Lemme give a shot at some guidelines.

A work contains:

• Explicit sex
  • Between adults
    • Is arousal the primary reaction the work as a whole is going for?
    • Is it the sole aim of the work?
    • If yes to both, cut. If no to the first, probably okay. If yes to the first but no to the second, more context needed.
  • Between an adult and a teenager: Likely cut. Depends on other factors. Context needed.
  • Between an adult and a pre-teen: cut.
  • Between teenagers: Possibly cut. Depends on other factors, like who the work is aimed at and whether it is a large portion of the work. Context needed.
  • Between pre-teens: cut.
• Implied sex
  • Between adults: A-okay.
  • Between an adult and a teenager: Depends on context.
  • Between an adult and a pre-teen: Depends on context. If it is shown as a positive, it is out.
  • Between teenagers. Probably okay.
  • Between pre-teens. Nope
• Sexualizes children: not okay.

Lots of probablies and possiblies, I know. That's why we need human beings making the call.

FE: some adjustments made

edited 17th Apr '12 2:33:52 PM by FastEddie

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

@Discar: the full, 5 person panel (more "P" aliteration...) was anounced by Eddie a litle while ago. He is working on finishing the coading now.

@ The 5P: want to start work on Five P Perused with a list of what is gone and what stays? Though it might need a lock or a penalty for non-5P members who edit it.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!

@Arcades - Speaking only for myself, again, but I really couldn't give a fuck if someone wants to "flame" me or whatever based on panel decisions. Sticks and stones, and all that.

And clearly we won't be anonymous because Eddie already posted all five of our names. It's kind of like with the moderators - accepting this position also means accepting the responsibility and "risks" of possible flak from the rest of the community.

Also, ccoa's guidelines look pretty good.

edited 17th Apr '12 12:12:48 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Good standards ccoa. I hope the panel abides by them.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

Why are you using that example?

I'm not even an American and I know that Mister Rogers' neighbourhood isn't "squicky as hell".

Dutch Lesbian

@ccoa: That would be perfect. I like the possiblies and probablies. Flexible, but enough to quell any irrational "my favorite works' pages are going to go away!" fears (and, TBH, I can find a defense in there for Lolita and at least one of the two potentially questionable works I've alluded to before in this thread).

edited 17th Apr '12 12:24:43 PM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

He COULD use some legitimate examples, but then those would get cutlisted. Regardless of the absurdity of the example, the question still stands.

edited 17th Apr '12 12:18:18 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode

Just to clarify, that's "the primary reaction the work as a whole is going for" right? As in, is the work primarily porn, or does it just contain porn-y scenes scattered in an otherwise non-porn story?

edited 17th Apr '12 12:20:50 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

What question?

Dutch Lesbian

I don't follow your logic. Are you saying that your "favorite" works are likely to get cut, and for that reason you're trying to avoid calling attention to them? That's not really good sportsmanship.

It's not like they won't be looked at sooner or later anyway.

edited 17th Apr '12 12:25:30 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Mr Roger's Neighborhood wouldn't be cut because it contains no sex (explicit or otherwise) and does not sexualize children.

I thought that my previous post addressed that, but I guess not.

EDIT: Yes, work as a whole. My bad.

edited 17th Apr '12 12:20:41 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.