Turn the Natterfy button into a selection of messages

ccoa came up with this:

It would be such a nice tool. I often find myself wanting to use the Natterfy button, but since the message doesn't directly cover what's wrong with the bad edit, I end up either not doing it, or writting a custom PM if I have the time. A nice drop down menu letting us select the subject of the pre-written PM could be a great help.

Depending on how hard it would be to code, that could be very useful.

*puppy dog eyes* Please?

EDIT: I know I wouldn't be trusted to help with the coding, but I'd be more than happy to write or help write the form PMs and maybe a page to explain why they got the message in more detail (and why they shouldn't be upset about it) and to keep the current form letters and suggestions for new ones, like the editing tips page.

These are the most common repeat editing mistakes I see:

• True Natter (Conversation In The Main Page) - already covered
• Responding to, correcting, or contradicting a bullet above
• First person or use of This Troper
• Incorrect Example Indentation
• Misused tropes, usually from assuming meaning from the trope name
• Misusing Subversion when they meant some other way of Playing with a Trope or when it's a completely straight example (so, so much).
• Not italicizing media names
• Word Cruft, including things like "no mention of" or "I can't believe no one mentioned"
• Justifying Edits - these seem to be becoming less common. Maybe the word is getting out?

Not so common but still a problem:

• "Literal" examples - not really an example of the trope unless the title is taken literally, such as using The Igor for Igor of Persona.
• Using all caps, emotes, chatspeak, multiple explanation points, or shoehorned memes

edited 9th Feb '12 7:46:59 AM by ccoa

Yeah, we would so benefit from having this.

This really would be nice especially since we've proven that the base concept works really well.

Here's another couple:

• Partial examples, or "sort of an example." It's either an example or it's not. Don't shoehorn it to fit.
• 'Arguable' examples. Again, it either is or isn't.

edited 9th Feb '12 9:02:40 AM by ccoa

Yes, this sort of menu selection would be helpful.

edited 9th Feb '12 10:48:49 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Oh, one more:

• Media name potholed in a character name. Sheesh, I see this a lot.

I agree with all of the above, although at times a grammar/spelling-fy would also be good.

Also, aren't Repair Dont Respond and Justifying Edit already covered by the normal Natter PM?

Nope. This is the current form PM:

The <article name> edit you made on <time stamp> looks like discussion in the main article. We try to keep the articles more like articles than discussions. Please feel free to make that kind of entry on the discussion page for the article or in whichever of the forums is best.

I don't use it as much as I'd like, because it doesn't cover Repair Dont Respond at all. You don't put something like that in a discussion page or forum, you fix or delete the original entry.

edited 9th Feb '12 12:49:27 PM by ccoa

I might add Namespace to the button candidate list - it's extremely irritating to move wicks around constantly.

About ^: well, "responding" to an example usually falls within the definition of Conversation In The Main Page

Yes, but Repair Dont Respond is particularly for when you type up a response to an above point when you should have instead just changed or deleted that point. So it is certainly a form of Conversation In The Main Page / Thread Mode, but not one covered by our current natterfy PM.

You might have a point there.

Anyway, I also add Zero Context Example (esp of the Zero Context Example + Word Cruft variety: "Trope: Well, duh!") to the candidate list if it isn't already listed.

I refer to this as "hiding the work" in most cases.

Oh, another PM for Walkthrough Mode

These are all good ideas.

So, I see that there are these proposals:

• True Natter (Conversation In The Main Page) - already covered.
• Responding to, correcting, or contradicting a bullet above
• First person or use of This Troper
• Incorrect Example Indentation
• Misused tropes, usually from assuming meaning from the trope name.
• Misusing Subversion when they meant some other way of Playing With a Trope or when it's a completely straight example (so, so much).
• Not indentifying work names by not italicising them or potholing them in a character name.
• Word Cruft, including things like "no mention of" or "I can't believe no one mentioned"
• Justifying Edits.
• Using all caps, emotes, chatspeak, multiple explanation points, or shoehorned memes
• Partial examples, or "sort of an example" or "arguable" or "YMMV" examples. It either is or isn't.
• "Poor Presentation" AKA all-caps, chatspeak, spelling, punctuation, grammar, and meme shoe-horning issues.
• Namespace
• Zero Context Example (with or without Word Cruft)
• Walkthrough Mode
• Disregarding Commented-out signs

From these, we could work out a selection of PM messages.

EDIT: Merging and adding several suggestions as proposed

edited 13th Feb '12 10:32:32 AM by SeptimusHeap

You might be possible to merge some of them. Italicizing work name and not potholing a work into a character name could be merged in a simple "Properly identifying a Work's Name" PM.

Good point actually. Also, I don't think that having a dozen or so messages is going to be easy to work with.

Yeah, we probably need to identify a small number of the most critical ones and stick to those. We can axe some and merge others.

Would 6 be about right, do you think?

I'd say strike the "Using all caps, emotes, chatspeak, multiple explanation points, or shoehorned memes" one. It's probably not common enough to be a big problem.

Partial and arguable examples can be merged into one.

Example Indentation and Zero Context Example could possibly be lumped under "incorrectly adding an example". We could add a small note to that lumped one about adding an example outside the folders, too.

edited 13th Feb '12 8:24:45 AM by ccoa

Might wanna have something regarding the hidden comments, in case someone adds a quote or trope when/where they're not supposed to or changes/removes a pic that an IP thread's decided on.

All caps, emotes, chatspeak, etc. can be folded into spelling and grammar.

No, Example Indentation issues also appear in showlists. Better to keep them separate.

About ^: Not sure if it fits.

(At Madrugada's post): Good idea. Added that.

edited 13th Feb '12 10:33:09 AM by SeptimusHeap

"Poor Presentation" could cover all-caps, chatspeak, spelling, punctuation, grammar, and meme shoe-horning issues.

Either I'm not parsing that properly, or there's been a disconnect...I'm not talking about Example Indentation at all.