Frozen (Disney film)

So I just found out that the plot of Forest of Shadows is about a mysterious plague striking Arendelle, forcing Elsa to cancel her plans to go on a world tour to address the epidemic.

Ugh.

The more I think about it, the more I really like this rewrite of the ending.

At first I was worried it might seem a bit contrived, since it relies heavily on a power we’ve never seen Elsa have before, but I really liked what he does with it.

Basically, in this rewrite, Elsa would have the power to create transparent tunnels of ice, that she can use to explore underwater. This would be established at the beginning of the movie, and be how she discovered her parents ship.

This would play into the finale, when Elsa finally reaches the glacier. Since Altohallan be a tributary of the river, Elsa would come to a glacier with a small stream from it. Inside the glacier, there would be a Subglacial lake, but it has an eerie blue glow. Elsa jumps in, and she can see shadowy figures just beneath her, but she can’t see details and their voices are muffled. She needs to go deeper.

She would swim back out, and create the ice tunnels we saw her use at the beginning. Now she’s able to go deep enough. We start by showing scenes from Frozen 1, like in the movie, that part was great. Then we Start seeing more painful memories. A memory of her younger self longingly staring out the window at kids playing, as cracks silently start to form in the tunnel behind her. Elsa dives deeper. As in the movie, this is where she finds out that the dam was a trick, as more cracks start to form. Just as she finds out that her grandfather killed the Northuldra leader in cold blood, the tunnel above her gives way, and water comes crashing down. She sends off the ice message to Anna as she does in the original film, and just as the water just hit her, she raises her hands in defense, and cut to a wideshot of the lake freezing over, and the blue light fade to black..,

Since Elsa froze the entire River over, it cut the enchanted forest from the Magic entirely, creating a ticking clock. Unless the dam is destroyed giving the Forest an infusion of magical energy, the Forest will die. From here Anna’s story would play out pretty much the same, the only real important change being that, after she trips and is about to be crushed by a rock giant, we cut back to Elsa.

Elsa froze the wave of water 12 inches before it hit her. She’s trapped under the ice, and is shivering and weak. She tries to melt the ice, but she can’t, since her ability to melt ice is connected to feelings of love, and right now, she feels anything but. She just found out her great grandfather didn’t trust people like her, and relived her traumatic childhood.

Suddenly a memory materializes. It’s the scene from Frozen 1 where they say goodbye to their parents, but we get to see a bit more of it this time.

Then we cut back to Anna, and she’s rescued by Kristoff and Swen the rest of the climax would play out similarly.

________________________________

I love how this version actually uses the mechanics of how Elsa’s powers work from the first movie, and really ties all the themes and motifs the movie was attempting to develop, together, in a meaningful and hopefully interesting way.

Edited by megaeliz on Feb 2nd 2021 at 9:43:08 AM

Elsa froze the wave of water 12 inches before it hit her. She’s trapped under the ice, and is shivering and weak. She tries to melt the ice, but she can’t, since her ability to melt ice is connected to feelings of love, and right now, she feels anything but. She just found out her great grandfather didn’t trust people like her, and relived her traumatic childhood.

Elsa freezing the water that way would be reminiscent of the ice shield that sprung up to stop that arrow in the ice palace.

From deleted scenes, I found their creation ideas were extremely confused, and disconnected from the first one(Although they repeated many scenes in f2).

The beginning Finding elsa's source and ending anna queen Arendelle and elsa became another existence have been set before movie making. But they failed to link the beginnig and ending, I still cant understand why they didnt explain whether two sisters willing to change their positions. And there are many evidences show the movie makers have tried to give some explainations. But their considerations focused on 'why elsa had to abdication', and developed several ideas baed on it.

1. In elsa's dream, it showed how dangerous was elsa's power and she still couldnt completely control it.On the face of it that seems to make sense, cuz we all know elsa's power kept growing with her age, but this problem was alreasy solved in first moive, it is hard to explain why same problem could cause two endings. I think that is the reason they abandoned this idea and turned to more soft one.

2. In unmeltable me interview(frozen2 novel also mentioned), elsa's power needed to be released regularly, otherwise...I dont know what will happen, but elsa felt uncomfortale if she didnt release her power. This was really a whimsical thought which made elsa looks like an addict, and they even kept it in frozen 2 novel (a version was very close to the final version). An addict literally cannot be queen, but this idea was obviously didn't unfriendly to kids, in japan the some publisher deleted related contents when they published frozen2 novel. So, this idea was also unworkable.

3. In a place of our own, elsa gave a reason for her abdication that was waiting for spirits need though she didnt know what she need to do, what a terrible answer.

They eventually didnt give any clear reason to else for her leaving, only 'who knows deep down I am not where I meant to be'(or maybe the scene that elsa frosted her hands was also a hint), even now I still dont understand what 'meant to be' exactly mean.

Interestingly enough, I found anna's personally opinion was never taken into account by movie makers, whether she wanted to be queen? No one cared about it, they made many scenes to tell us what power and ability she had and she was suitable to be queen, also in the frozen art book they said anna was born to be leader...so she must be leader?

so what do you guys think of the rewritten climax I proposed?

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 1st 2020 at 11:33:19 AM

Oh it was definitely given more thought and would feel like it had true connections to the first movie.

Like I said, I was a bit hesitant about it, due to the heavy reliance on new powers, as well as having to cut the Water-Horse and significant reworking of the “Show Yourself” scenes, but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. This version cleans up a lot of the weirder plot-holes and dropped story threads, and brings everything together much more cohesively than we got in the finished film.

Having the ice tunnels that Elsa uses to enter the lake and see the memories, physically crack, as she goes further into the past and becomes more upset and less sure of herself, is such a great visual metaphor for the dangers of dwelling too much on the past, and having a memory of her mother showing that she really loved her, give her the strength to break the ice, integrates her mother into the story a bit better, and feels more internally consistent.

I dont think only changing climax is enough, the whole story should be reconstructed if the climax is rewrote.

In your story, elsa overcame fear because of her mother, she suspected mother's love for her. It required some plots in the beginning of the movie to show her doubt, such as I seek the truth.

Anyway, I think the main problem of the movie is linking between beginnig and ending, climax is not a big problem.

Elsa being able to create ice tunnels does not seem that far-fetched to me, and at least far less outlandish than her newfound power to conjure images from the past in ice because water had memory (which also means that homeopathy is a valid form of medicine in the Frozen universe) and seems a logical consequence of her powers (there is an episode of The Batman where Mr Freeze does just that).

It is interesting that the writers seemed to have had so much trouble justifying why Elsa needed to abdicate that they eventually decided to keep the reasons horribly vague. At least I understand why there is so little explanation of it in the movie, but then again, I wonder why it did not occur to them that, maybe the fact that they had so much trouble justifying the ending they wanted meant that they needed to change that ending.

It is interesting that the writers seemed to have had so much trouble justifying why Elsa needed to abdicate that they eventually decided to keep the reasons horribly vague. At least I understand why there is so little explanation of it in the movie, but then again, I wonder why it did not occur to them that, maybe the fact that they had so much trouble justifying the ending they wanted meant that they needed to change that ending.

They had to find a reason and in the end opted for…a deus ex machina ending where her fate was predetermined by "spirits" instead of her own choice.

And from a writing standpoint, just going off what the crew have said in interviews, I feel like the only "purpose" Elsa has for staying in the forest and Ahtohollan was the writers wanting her to be out of the way so Anna could become queen.

It just seems forced to separate sisters who were forcibly separated for more than half their lives. Sisters who spent almost every day of that time thinking about each other, and whose only thoughts were each other’s safety.

Interestingly enough, I found anna's personally opinion was never taken into account by movie makers, whether she wanted to be queen? No one cared about it, they made many scenes to tell us what power and ability she had and she was suitable to be queen, also in the frozen art book they said anna was born to be leader...so she must be leader?

yayoyo57 makes a good point. No one was really asked if they were fine with where they ended up.

Edited by dmcreif on Mar 2nd 2020 at 8:55:49 AM

The thing that bugs me about that though, is that it’s not even that hard to come up with a realistic reason that Elsa could be unhappy or depressed.

• she's scared she can't be the sister she feels like Anna deserves.
• she's still uncomfortable in the castle where she was for all intents and purposes, imprisoned, for most of her childhood.
• she still struggles with the self loathing and fear of human connection instilled in her by her well intentioned but misguided parents.
• She doesn’t trust the happiness she found at the end of the previous movie to last

And I’m sure there are others. Any one of these would have given Elsa a believable reason to be unhappy.

Edited by megaeliz on Mar 2nd 2020 at 11:32:25 AM

The shorts have made clear that Elsa blames herself a lot for their childhood and seems to really fear she's not doing enough for Anna. It's strange they completely dropped this characterisation in the movie.

Maybe they thought people wouldn't take the shorts into consideration? I mean, most theatrical shorts and standalone tv specials from movie franchises, not just Frozen, are generally just comedic one offs and not really think about how it adheres to movie continuity.

I will said one issue is the movie want to have an aventure with a mythos like moana but also establish a mistery and both atack each other.

Why? because mystery give you a set up, while aventure and end, and mystery is meandiring because we see the mental state of someone, there is a reason must mystery are writen in first person.

Aventure are usually going from point A to point B, with a lot of variation, look how many detaurs moanna take in her own movie for example.

Here it feel both and is awkard, Elsa and Anna know they have to go to a place byt they dont know why and how, so the movie have to give more reason for the to jump.

Also as the aventure only concern elsa, it have to make a excuse of why to bring everyone else and is...poorly.

I am also confused about the mythology system built in frozen2, Ahtohallan seems like the highest god who is the source of magic(4 spirits?), and each spirit has their thought, but sometimes they made decision together, for example closing the forest and the spirits all agree.....

The spirits protected the forest and Ahtohallan, but they didnt protect Northuldra, the spirits indiscriminately attacked anyone when Northuldra fought with Arendelle soldiers. Also, Northuldra said when nature speak, we listen, they believed nature and four spirits(stones). I knew in saami culture, saami people sacrificed stone for nature god, so I think four spirites are nature god. So what relationship between Ahtohallan and nature?

Anyway, I want to know who gave elsa magic? Ahtohallan, nature, or the spirits all agree....? or they are the same one?

Additionally Northuldra said fifth spirit was a bridge linking people and nuture, while the symbol of fifth spirit looks like the connection with four spirits(without human), it seems like a bit conflict between them.

The thing about shorts for animated franchises, especially in this day and age, is that they can still be used as vehicles for worldbuilding and character development, when done right.

To list animated franchises (whether they be shows or movies) with good shorts:

• Kung Fu Panda
• Cars
• The Incredibles
• How to Train Your Dragon
• Actually, you know what? Nearly all of Pixar's shorts are of a high quality, and most of Disney's short films related to their 2000s franchises and beyond are also excellent as well.

And since they're arguably more visible than video games, comics and books, the general public will tend to take shorts into account of the overarching story — especially when those shorts are of high quality (which the Frozen shorts are).

With that in mind, it is mind-boggling how the directors and writers would suddenly discard such good established characterizations already.

Really, it says a lot about a dip in story quality when people prefer the characterizations of the shorts over the theatrical installments.

On a somewhat similar note, the Winnie The Pooh franchise has a similar problem.

The writing quality for the franchise rose from the original film and peaked during the New Adventures era and early Disneytoon films, before later shows and the most recent animated movie dropped the ball.

Edited by BrightLight on Mar 3rd 2020 at 4:44:36 AM

The shorts have made clear that Elsa blames herself a lot for their childhood and seems to really fear she's not doing enough for Anna. It's strange they completely dropped this characterisation in the movie.

What I liked about Olaf's Frozen Adventure in particular is that after shutting out Anna again, Elsa was later shown going to Anna's door once she felt she had had enough time to compose herself to apologize.

With that in mind, it is mind-boggling how the directors and writers would suddenly discard such good established characterizations already.

Really, it says a lot about a dip in story quality when people prefer the characterizations of the shorts over the theatrical installments.

It's like how Elsa's isolation is rewarded with...more isolation. She sacrificed herself temporarily for the truth that helped lift the curse. And her behavior towards Anna (leaving her behind, shutting her out, abandoning Arendelle) was rewarded with being trapped in the past. She’s alive. But she has to stay in Ahtohollan for...reasons because she’s a spirit and a super-powered human at the same time. She’s different, and that’s why she should live far away from the people who love and accept her.

The fun thing is, I have seen reviews praising the fact that Elsa ends up being free to do what she wants instead of having to do what was expected of her. And, well, I can't say that this doesn't fit with the movie.

Which makes me sometimes wonder if the lack of explanations for the characters behaviour was not intended in order to allow a maximum of possible interpretations.

I feel like fandom explaining away the questionable writing of Elsa, Anna, Kristoff, Olaf, etc. with headcanons is not going to be good for the Frozen franchise if future movies get made. It just gives the creators a free pass to be careless with their narrative choices, rather than ask them to provide better.

I've been more and more along the side of if audience has to reach for headcanon to justify important plot points just to make them palateable, then the story just isn't very good.

Regarding yay Elsa free to do what she wants rather than what's expected, Anna's character arc is literally the opposite, wherein she has to do the thing expected of her as queen of Arendelle because no one else is there to do it for her.

Personally, I think the scene that elsa was riding to Athohallan doesnt mean elsa will stay at Athohallan forever (It dosent even mean elsa was going to Athohallan).

The abstract meaning of this scene is greater than the actual meaning. And obviously this scene was virtual, in reality, it is impossible to sun rise from north at Norway in winter. (Disney could not make such simply geography mistake.)

So the last scene is a artistic expression, elsa was riding to Athohallan, it is means she could be herself in the furture(because she showed herself at Athohallan), and the sunrise means her new life(remeber she was dead in the movie), just as frozen art of book said she is truly free now.

I've been more and more along the side of if audience has to reach for headcanon to justify important plot points just to make them palatable, then the story just isn't very good.

That in a nutshell is also my problem with the most recent season of Stranger Things, which is another topic entirely.

Frozen II, like The Rise of Skywalker, is a perfect example of creators getting lost in their own plot devices, to the point that they contradict the movie before it and change the characters to fit the plot devices instead of fitting the plot devices to the characters and having the characters evolve from it.

Good directors need to remember that they’re storytellers first. Too many today are overly reliant on visual effects or are so impressed with their own cleverness that they overreach and needlessly complicate what should be simple tales.

This reviewer described it best: "The movie tried to answer questions nobody really had an issue with, like the origin of Elsa’s powers. In doing so, many more questions start to arise. Why was Elsa the fifth element if ice is basically water? If the spirits gave her that power, can Elsa also give powers to someone else as she is “the fifth spirit”? Why would they give her such power? Just because her mother saved her father? How did Elsa “wake” the spirits? Why did Elsa froze when she learned the truth of her grandfather?"

Regarding yay Elsa free to do what she wants rather than what's expected, Anna's character arc is literally the opposite, wherein she has to do the thing expected of her as queen of Arendelle because no one else is there to do it for her.

Yeah, both sisters deserved better endings. The review I linked to above pointed out that all the characters have pretty static arcs: "Now the character arcs were pretty flat, we don’t really see any sort of growth or change in our protagonists. Yeah, they face some challenges but they don’t come at the other end as better or more experienced. That combined with the fact that there is no actual villain makes the movie a little slow from time to time. Characters like Elsa’s parents or the rock creatures are just pure exposition dumpsters. They exist solely to give out information relevant to the plot. Also, the “twist” about the dam being the source of conflict was pretty obvious from the get-go. Kristoff’s arc is just trying to propose to Anna, failing miserably, disappearing for half the movie and reappearing to save her and now propose like a pro-Don Juan. It really amounts to nothing."

And on the subject of the ending: "Another huge problem is that Disney seems to be done with its twist villains and is now going for a “separating your inseparable main characters in the end” trend, we saw it in Toy Story 4, Wreck-it Ralph 2, and nowhere. A choice that in none of the cases resonates as strongly as the writers think so in my estimation. The decision for Elsa to stay and live in the forest does not have any set-up, foreshadow, or payoff whatsoever. Anna suddenly becoming queen has no bearing consequences in anyone, things remain exactly as they left them."

Edited by dmcreif on Mar 6th 2020 at 11:30:51 AM

I find this fanart by the author of Pocket Princesses a very interesting take on Anna's crowning.

How is it that there's so much more emotion in that one image than there is in the actual coronation scene?

(It's to do with Anna actually feeling conflicted about the whole thing and showing fear.)

Edited by BrightLight on Mar 7th 2020 at 8:30:10 AM