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alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
May 15th 2019 at 8:40:13 AM

But what happened when Marvel finally got the rights to Spider-Man, a popular character? Play it safe and go for the bucks, using Peter Parker yet again
  1. Marvel doesn't have the rights to Spider-Man, Sony still has the rights, they are just letting Marvel use him in exchange for Marvel making Spider-Man movies for Sony.
  2. It was Sony's decision to use Peter Parker, not Marvel's.
  3. Still, Marvel probably would have chosen him, but that's because the franchise is almost entirely centered around one character: Peter Parker. The Spider-Man franchise is not at all like the X-Men franchise, which has dozens and dozens of potential viewpoint characters.
  4. Marvel might not have had a ton of options, but Guardians of the Galaxy was still risky considering just how obscure and off-the-wall it was. Still, Marvel could have played it safe and kept making Iron Man films, but, get this, they didn't want to play it safe. Playing it safe stagnates the franchise (see: Amazing Spider-Man), so they took a risk and made a movie about way more obscure characters and it worked.
  5. This is why they are making films about the Eternals and Shang-Chi instead of diving right into the X-Men. And this is why I highly doubt we will see Wolverine within the next, I don't know, seven years.

And no, Wolverine is not "simply one character in the giant ensemble that is the X-Men", he is THE X-Man that everybody knows and who steals the show at every X-Men related production
Which is why not using him is the best idea. Overuse of Wolverine is what made him suck in the comics and the best X-Men movie is the one where they killed him, simply because it was something completely different. Once again: playing it safe leads to stagnation and Marvel knows this.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
May 15th 2019 at 9:12:40 AM

Do you think that is the reason people liked "Logan"? "Batman vs. Superman" killed the most famous superhero of all time, and somehow it did not got the same reception...

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slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
May 15th 2019 at 9:15:05 AM

Well it was a unique superhero movie.

Plus very well done in general.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
May 15th 2019 at 9:17:31 AM

Do you think that is the reason people liked "Logan"?
They enjoyed Logan because it was incredibly well-written and well-directed and it also killed off Logan in a very memorable and heart-breaking way. It was also Logan's eighth film as a main character (tenth if you count cameos), so his death had also been pretty much earned. BVS killed Superman off with two films and did it badly, botching pretty much everything.

If you think that people will love anything with Wolverine in it, I would look up the reaction to X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
May 15th 2019 at 9:20:33 AM

The thing is not what I think, but what the studios think. Do they think that people would love a new film featuring Wolverine? If the answer is yes, then yes, they will make a new Wolverine film.

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alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
May 15th 2019 at 9:23:55 AM

Do they think that people would love a new film featuring Wolverine?
Iron Man 3 made over a billion dollars. Marvel did not make an Iron Man 4.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
May 15th 2019 at 9:36:25 AM

I understood that there wasn't an Iron Man 4 film because RDJ refused.

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alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
May 15th 2019 at 9:38:23 AM

I mean, he returned for Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame, so no, he didn't refuse. Hell, RDJ was totally up for making another Iron Man film. Marvel just decided not to make another Iron Man film and move on to other solo films like Doctor Strange and Black Panther.

Edited by alliterator on May 15th 2019 at 9:39:26 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
May 15th 2019 at 9:54:15 AM

That article starts by saying "It was only three years ago that Robert Downey Jr. ignited speculation he might never suit up as Iron Man again", so yes, that was the initial version.

In any case, that's just format. No Iron Man 4 does not mean no Iron Man, he stayed both in the Avengers films and as a Spolight Stealing Squad in the third Cap film and the first Spider-Man film. So the premise stays. The studios thought that people would love to keep seeing Iron Man, they kept adding Iron Man everywhere, Wolverine Publicity be dammed. In fact, it seems he will "appear" in Far From Home, despite the little inconvenience of not having the actor around anymore.

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alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
May 15th 2019 at 9:59:23 AM

In fact, it seems he will "appear" in Far From Home, despite the little inconvenience of not having the actor around anymore.
I don't know where you got that, but no, Iron Man won't be appearing in Far From Home. And even though he did appear in those other films, they were either ensemble films or ones where he had very little screentime (like Homecoming). They were not Iron Man films and they didn't make the same amount of money that Iron Man 3 did (well, except for Infinity War and Endgame, but that was because those were huge tentpoles).

No, again, Marvel could have easily made an Iron Man 4, but they didn't. Because they wanted to try other things, other characters. Black Panther was a risk, Captain Marvel was a risk. But they did them anyway and were rewarded with high box office returns for both of them. So I highly doubt they will immediately go straight to Wolverine in the X-Men films.

Edited by alliterator on May 15th 2019 at 10:00:28 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Mizerous Zappy Zappy Lady from Normura Land Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Zappy Zappy Lady
May 15th 2019 at 10:20:26 AM

Or Magneto sick of everyone suggesting him as the only villain mutant wise in the MCU

See Ya!
May 15th 2019 at 12:46:07 PM

Honestly, if we ever get the X-Men into the MCU, I want to see a Dazzler movie.

I've even got the plot synopsis; Alison Blaire just recently graduated from the Xavier School, and instead of wanting to make X-Man like all her classmates do, she decides to become a pop star.

It could be a low-key movie about super-powered people trying to live non-superhero lives, chronicling Dazzler's rise to fame as she deals with the prejudice of being the first openly mutant singer.

Edited by drac0blade on May 15th 2019 at 1:17:55 AM

May 15th 2019 at 5:14:17 PM

Give us X Men Academy with Julian Keller, a Wither and Elixir rivalry and Selene as the Big Bad.

Sign on for this After The End Fantasy RP.
IndirectActiveTransport You Give Me Fever from Chicago Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
May 15th 2019 at 9:40:33 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing Mystique back if she's not the lackey of Magneto and not willingly working with Charles Xavier. No, on second thought, let that character rest too.

Make it about Banshee and Emma Frost running a school, with Jubilee and Sync as the main characters, M as Jubilee's Always Someone Better rival and Emplate as the villain only Jubilee's quick thinking can defeat after everyone other student's superior mutant power fails.(Yes, even Skin will have better powers than Jubilee in this version, as he will be re-imagined as a pirate from Brazil who can summon the arm of a giant.

That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
May 15th 2019 at 11:21:36 PM

I'm beginning to think that Matt Rosenberg is the result of me wishing on a monkey paw, which created him specifically to do all the Karma stories I want in the least-satisfying way imaginable.

The latest UXM has Shan say that Illyana hates her, nobody trusts her, and that Rahne hated her. Note that never in this entire story has any of that been shown. None of it has been hinted at. No one has ever said a harsh word to Karma, no one has ever shown even the slightest indication they didn't trust her. It is the epitome of telling over showing. Rather than do any sort of compelling character drama where Karma has to deal with the consequences of her actions in Dead Souls, we get Karma saying she's dealing with the consequences.

Holy shit, is it ever some infuriating writing. It's terrible writing. And as a Karma fan, it's just a massive piss-off and I want Rosenberg to never be allowed anywhere near Karma ever again. Because holy fuck.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
May 16th 2019 at 12:08:57 AM

Which is weird, because I thought he did a pretty good job writing her in New Mutants: Dead Souls. That was a good mini-series, until the ending.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
May 16th 2019 at 12:14:03 AM

[up] He did a terrible job with Karma in Dead Souls. Just an awful job. He took a story that was about her, and cut her out almost entirely, until the final issue, where were were told, not shown, that Tran had been influencing her behaviour, and then she used her friend as a murder weapon so she could re-absorb his soul. A moment that lost a lot of impact because of how little she'd been in the book up to that point.

I hated Dead Souls specifically because of how Karma was handled in the story.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
May 16th 2019 at 2:47:34 AM

Everybody is happy in the MCU, the snap has been undone and all the dead are back to life. Everybody except Wanda: Vision was not snaped, he was killed personally, and so the reverse snap did not bring him back.

A good background for her to go crazy, and use House of M to introduce mutants rather than vanish them.

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Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
May 16th 2019 at 3:18:26 AM

[up] Or we could always not do a story about a powerful, heroic woman going crazy. Especially since, while Wanda is grieving, she's not shown as mad with grief or anything. She's just, you know, grieving. Trying to continue on with her life.

Probably the best way to introduce mutants to the MCU is to just introduce mutants to the MCU. It's not complicated.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
May 16th 2019 at 4:11:42 AM

But there is a problem with adding mutants to the MCU just like that: where had they been all this time? You need an in-story explanation.

Another one: the counter-snap by Hulk worked, but people Came Back Wrong, and now they are mutants.

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Aleistar Morning Sun from Glidewing Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Morning Sun
May 16th 2019 at 7:09:02 AM

[up] , The only real narrative use of a "mutants weren't a thing until now" is to have a Watsonian reason for the X-Men not being present until the Fox buy out. I'm of the opinion that you can just have the mutants having already existed and only now starting to get found out. I mean, the MCU is no stranger to secret societies like HYDRA or Kamar-Taj, so the existence of mutants being hidden isn't that unlikely.

Uptown Funk is the universal language. - Adam Neely
May 16th 2019 at 7:28:11 AM

But mutants are not supposed to be a "hidden" race or society. The whole point is that mutations happen to teenagers at random, and that anyone could be a mutant or have a mutant son.

Another way would be the Ultimate Marvel trick: people think that mutations are mutations, but unknown to everybody, everything started because of a scientific experiment gone wrong and expanded like a disease.

Ultimate Secret Wars
Aleistar Morning Sun from Glidewing Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Morning Sun
May 16th 2019 at 10:54:24 AM

[up] Hey, everybody, Grigor referenced Ultimate Marvel again, have a drink.

What I was trying to say is that speculating "why haven't mutants appeared yet in the MCU" and trying to find a "solution" to the "problem" is rooted in an attempt to explain in-universe why the X-Men haven't showed up. Like Tiamatty said, you can just introduce mutants by having teenagers developing powers; it ultimately isn't a narrative problem because (good) X-Men stories aren't focused on explaining why the X-gene exists but rather how they affect society and mutants' social standing.

Or you could just use it as an excuse for lots of people getting superpowers so you don't have to bother with multiple origin stories.

The reason I mentioned the possibility of having mutants be secret is that a) there is sort of an existing precedent with the likes of Apocalypse and Selene b) it would satisfy that move to Watsonian explanation for Doylist omissions c) would allow the X-Men to have already been founded. Again, none of that strictly necessary though.

Edited by Aleistar on May 16th 2019 at 1:56:28 PM

Uptown Funk is the universal language. - Adam Neely
May 16th 2019 at 11:17:47 AM

Welp, poor Chamber.

Bastion, get your metal ass over here with the Transmode. If you want a stable mutant population, you're not doing a good job of this.

Edited by NickTheSwing on May 16th 2019 at 11:18:45 AM

Sign on for this After The End Fantasy RP.
May 16th 2019 at 11:29:51 AM

A secret society of people born with super powers, living in a secluded location away from the world? Yes, there is precedent, but not a positive one. In fact, I can guarantee that there will be massive fandom rage if mutants are adapted that way.

As for Strange's sorcerers, that's not quite the same case. Those guys do not have intrinsic powers, they are trained to do the things they do. And they decide who gets to be trained and who isn't, like a Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

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