Dumbing of Age

Open the door Sit on the floor Dina is dressed like a dinosaur

Boom boom acka-lacka lacka boom Boom boom acka-lacka boom boom

This strip is brilliant and amazing visual comedy.

"Hi Ethan, hi guy I verbally abused and then proceeded to ghost for weeks until I randomly decided you were worth speaking to again with no regard for your own views or opinions of me."

My hate for this fictional character is perfectly valid and healthy and if you think that's weird then nuh-uh you're weird.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Sep 17th 2019 at 1:32:05 PM

Why hello single most negative reading of these actions that could possibly be conceived short of outright violence.

Edited by sgamer82 on Sep 17th 2019 at 12:01:37 PM

Hey funny story, Amber's familiar with outright violence against people too!

That's why I included it as a qualifier.

I don't know if you're spoilered portion is meant seriously or not, but if it is I disagree because I find genuine hatred directed at something/someone who does not actually exist sincerely mind boggling.

Edited by sgamer82 on Sep 17th 2019 at 12:14:05 PM

Mostly humourous. I suppose I should try explaining myself.

Let's say Mary suddenly became a main character with no change in her behavior. Still hateful, still spiteful, still convinced of her own righteousness, but with the caveat that none of these things are intended to be bad. She says awful shit to Ruth and Carla but there's no one to call her out, and they still want to be friends with her. She treats everyone like dirt but they're all tripping over themselves to excuse her actions. She tells Joyce she hates her and never wants to speak to her again, and then plops herself down right next to her a while later like nothing happened.

And that's Amber to me, I guess. She feels completely indistinguishable from the actual villains except for the cartoonishly exaggerated self loathing. She just does awful shit to characters I like more than her and I'm expected to forgive her repeatedly because she has a sad backstory and she's intended by the writer to be a likeable person.

TLDR: If I felt like anyone was ever holding Amber accountable the way Ruth's entire arc right now is dealing with someone who is doing just that, I'd like her more.

I feel you're under a misconception here. You're holding Amber at fault for the break up with Danny. Amber isn't the one at fault though. The Amazi-girl personality is.
Check the tags from when they broke up, and you'll find that as soon as Amber saw Danny hanging out with Sal, Amber went to sleep, and Amazi-girl took over. Just look at when you search "Danny + Amber" in the tags. You'll notice it goes from Amber first seeing Sal and Danny, then jumps forward over a year later to Danny avoiding Amber in class. Amazi-girl had an irrational hatred of Sal, so Danny hanging out with her made her think Danny was betraying both personas.

Amber suffers for DID, and while she thinks the Amber personality is the bad one, its made heavily clear that the Amazi-girl personality is the bad one. Amber is a heavily introverted woman who considers herself damaged good and is constantly on the cusp of a mental breakdown, so after Amazi-girl broke up with Danny, she considered it better for him since he wouldn't have to deal with her. Hell, even after Danny and Amazi-girl broke up, its not like they alienated each other. They still have class together and are friends, its just relationship wise it didn't work out.

She grew up in an abusive environment where her father constantly put her down and made her lose all her sense of self worth. And after he hints of violence with both Sal and Ryan, along with the idea Mike put in her head, she considers her herself just as bad as the one who abused her.

I'm more lenient with Amber because, I've been where she's been. I've felt like I'm worthless, that I'm a burden to people, and that I just want to crawl away and hide. I've felt I'm doomed to follow in the footsteps of someone with abusive tendencies, and I've been on the cusp of a mental breakdown before. Amber is considered by the narrative as someone broken whose behavior is unhealthy, its why Ethan, Danny, Dina, Walky, and even fucking Mike bother to worry about her. They don't necessarily make excuses, but when it comes to someone like Amber with mental issues, you can't just call them out on shit as if they're consciously doing all this crap.

Amazi-girl on the other hand though I have that opinion about. By god does Amazi-girl frustrate me. She's worse than Amber is. She takes her pent up aggression out on others via vigilantism, engages in reckless endangerment with her stunts, acts as Inspector Javert to Sal, has been engaging in Crime Fighting without Amber's consent whenever Amber goes to sleep, which has side affects on Amber and her health, and ultimately makes things harder for Amber. She's the one who broke up with Danny. She's the one who lured Ryan to the campus and led to him confronting Amber. She's the one who stalked Sal and treated her like a monster whereas Amber was content on hiding. And no one aside from Sal can call her out on anything since she can just slip back into Amber's subconscious before they do.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 17th 2019 at 12:02:28 PM

I don't want to try to invalidate your feelings for the character, but everything you said kind of contributes to why I don't like her. The DID stuff was worked in as elegantly as a bent corkscrew and it wildly oscillates between Wacky Superhero Shenanigans and crippling mental trauma that needs to be taken deadly seriously. The entire narrative around Amazi-Girl wants its cake and to eat it too, where Amber is a poor traumatized girl in need of mental help and cuddles, and also she's a badass superhero who saves the day.

Like, I don't care that Amber hates herself. Self loathing is a fine character trait to add complexity but it's all there is to Amber. She acts like an ass and then she cries about how worthless she is and then keeps acting like an ass, and I don't care about the circumstances surrounding it anymore because I'm burnt out of sympathy for her. Why does Ruth have lengthy self deprecating monologues but I love her? Because one, it's integrated better, and two, Ruth is making a concentrated effort to stop being horrible and to be a better person.

Unless tonight's strip (that I haven't checked out yet as of writing this diatribe) starts to work things out, Amber has never reached out to Danny. I'm not asking her to get back together with him, god no, but a simple apology for the bullshit and gaslighting would be nice, but we'll never get that because the writer considers Amber 100% a blameless victim that everyone should love, and it's annoying.

Lastly, and I'll fully admit to this, I just lack the understanding of DID to properly come to a nuanced conclusion about the Amazi-Girl/Amber split, and the comic itself has been deeply unhelpful about that. So all I'm left with is a situation I don't understand that's been actively contradictory at times.

Let me put it simple then. With DID, each personality/alter is there own person. They share a body, and they are both equally considered real people. But they aren't the same person. Amber and Amazi-girl are no longer the same person. Amber can't be held responsible for Amazi-girls behavior, and vice versa. Amber is the one who beat up Blaine. Amazi-girl is the one who broke up and acted like a bitch to Danny.

Want to know who's in the strip at the time? Check the tags. A lot of times, only one of them will be listed. The tags aren't meant to denote when Amber is in the persona, its meant to denote which personalities are in the drivers seat.

Most of the stuff you blame Amber for is on Amazi-girls shoulders. Not Amber's.

Everyone is thirsty for a tall glass of Mike

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 17th 2019 at 1:14:55 PM

In Mike's case it's either an edgelordy subreddit or /b/.

I'm not certain I buy the argument of separate personalities only being liable for the host body's actions when they're in control. To me, that feels a little bit too close to "not guilty on account of demonic possession", something I thought we'd moved away from in our culture. For all that distinctive personalities have been formed, it's all still the same person. That said, I'm no psychologist, so maybe I misunderstand where the current state of DID is.

You're aware that mental illness often serves as a migitating factor in criminal justice, right?

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 18th 2019 at 2:43:16 PM

Can you understand how frustrating that is from my perspective? "Nothing Amber does is her fault because she has a split personality. No we're never going to diagnose her in-comic. Also she's a badass superhero except for when she isn't and you need to accept this every time she changes."

Yes. In very rare cases, people have successfully shown that intent cannot be proven, generally because there person was unaware that the action was criminal. And it's generally only where said dysfunction is permanent and the person remanded to a mental institution. And again, it's extremely rarely successful.

I suppose a lot of it depends on how distinct the other identity is considered. Unless we take it to "demonic possession" levels, it doesn't seem any more of a defense than "I get violent when I drink". It's still the same person.

Last I checked, being drunk is not actually treated as migitating because you caused this state of mind yourself and deliberately.

Mental illness is in no way comparable to that.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 18th 2019 at 3:16:20 PM

Legally speaking, anyone with DID is a single person with severe mental illness but who is responsible for their own actions or the actions of their alters.

And I think that's more or less where I'm headed with it. I suppose the moral question would be separate, and one that would, again, highly depend on whether you feel that there are indeed separate consciousnesses involved rather than one expressing themselves in different ways.

With Amber, I think its safe to say its separate consciousness'. She's gotten into arguments with Amazi-girl and there are periods where Amber's mind goes blank and Amazi-girl has taken over without Amber's consent. Amber ''tried'' to give up being Amazi-girl but the alter refused to, and instead began doing this. Look at the bruises on her hands from when she first found out Amazi-girl was running around at night with Amber having no memory of it. Those are still fresh. Meaning Amazi-girl had done it recently, and yet Amber had no memory whatsoever.

Amazi-girl is a full on Split Personality, and its made clear Amber doesn't like her anymore. Amber tried getting rid of the mask at one point to signify this and Amazi-girl just grabbed another. "Amazi-girl" the vigilante is just a costume. But the alter is all too real.

Honestly, it should be obvious if freaking Walky understands whats going on.

By the way, in cases of law, DID is still a very divisive topic. Mainly due the idea of accountability. Its divided between those who believe DID warrants an acquittal based on insanity, as DID is often used as justification for a defense of "Not Guilty by reason of Insanity." Not helping matters is numerous judges declining to allow DID as a defense under the rationale the scientific evidence is not at reliable standards, and that the court of law is only interested in judging the alter that was in control of the body at the time, what they're mindset was at the time, and that ultimately the other alters don't matter in the case of trial.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 18th 2019 at 2:49:40 PM

I mean, that's really serious though, and the comic is thus far treating Amber as the quirky social awkward girl who's dating Walky instead of dealing with the important stuff. It's hard to get a grip on this being a serious story of trauma when the comic itself doesn't want to let go of Amazi-Girl the fun superhero who saved Becky and backflips off of walls.

I don't want to say something terrible like "oh she's not actually ill because she's not acting sufficiently crazy for my tastes", but it's hard to understand Amber's circumstances when DID is so misunderstood and not something everyone can more easily latch onto like Dina being on the Autism spectrum or Ruth's depression.

So I believe you, I believe that Amber is being written as having DID, but I don't think it's being handled well, and it's lead to me being frustrated with her character on top of my other issues.

(I think I've exhausted my Amber complaining quota for another three months)

I know my personal experience isn't the same cos I don't have DID specifically, but the plural community seems to take it as given that "an alter did it" is not an excuse. Amber and Amazi-girl being different people doesn't mean they can do anything they want and the other is just helpless.

... though Amber has clearly tried doing something, and with Amazi-girl being immovably obstinate like this I really have no clue how Amber could realistically stop her — short of full-on institutionalization, which, frankly, I would never ever recommend under any circumstance.

I'm sure I was making some kind of point with this, but I've completely lost it by now.

I thought it made sense.

I forgot that she didn't know about that

That's honestly the scary part. Even if the excuse "An alter did it" can't be used, Amber is trying to stop this side of her and Amazi-girl just makes it worse and worse. It's honestly amazing Amber hasn't had a complete mental breakdown yet....

Then again, she did stab Ryan repeatedly, after he attacked her, after Amazi-girl beat the crap out of him, after he tried to date rape Joyce.

I won't claim to be the best informed about DID, since most of the info I have is based on some brief research, nor will I deny Amber does wallow in self pity some times, but she honestly has no real options.

• Blaine's pretty much beaten into her a lot of issues, including not going to therapy.
• She has a violent alter taking her anger out on others through vigilantism and who hijacks her body without consent.
• She's constantly teetering between sanity and a mental break after the collective number of shit she's gone through.
• And every time it seems like she's taking a step to get better, such as mending the bridge between her and Sal, finding Walky, striking a minor friendship with Dorothy, and even realizing she screwed up with Danny thanks to Amazi-girl, life (read: the plot) keeps throwing more and more shit her way to make it even harder, like Amazi-girl acting up, worrying she's turning into her shithole father, Blaine forming his Legion of Doom, and even being nearly Driven to Suicide.

What can she even do at this point? It's like Willis is just setting her up for a big fall.