Rename (29/05/12): Gene Hunt Interrogation Technique

Sounds pretty sane actually.

A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.

I added it as a new crowner option.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I still think they are both separate stand-alone tropes that deserve their own pages. But if Gene Hunt can be cut for the most anorexic of reasons, why should Jack Bauer be any different? Remember please that my primary argument has been for consistency.

If we hold X trope up to Y standard in order for it to be retained, then we should hold all tropes to that same standard, regardless of how many wicks they have, or how beloved they are by the fandoms, or whether they are pre-existing terms that have found their ways into the dictionaries. If they don't meet the standard, they're gone.

Either that, or the standard will be changed. Right now, the standard is "Good enough isn't good enough", apparently, so I'm working toward that goal. If you can sum up Trope Y as "Trope X, but in this other type of situation", it's not distinctive enough from Trope X, and it has got to go!

Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.

You seem to be the only one to care about consistency in itself- Anyway, what do you think of Fighteer's proposal? Boring, but Practical, huh?

A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.

I'm used to holding correct-yet-unpopular opinions. And as for Fighteer's solution, I support it.

Being in a Japanese-produced work is not enough of a difference to warrant its own trope.

You say this as if your school couldn't possibly be wrong about this. More relevantly, you say this as if all those who were trained as interrogators believed what their schools tell them, when in practice people distrust educators all the time.

That and what others pointed out about the gap between fiction and real life.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

This is a valid point; we aren't talking about Real Life. Tropes are fictional constructs and we discuss them in the context of their role in media.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Okay, see, I'm going to take issue with this "Remove" option again. We're back to talking about cutlisting tropes that have hundreds or thousands of inbounds because they're similar to other tropes. If they're distinct, they should stay. If they're not distinct, they should merge. Cutting isn't a good solution in either case.

And I suppose I should reiterate that Gene Hunt Interrogation Technique is not Interrogation By Torture Played for Laughs. Again, that's just what the laconic says, and the laconic is wrong, as many laconics are. The actual examples and description disagree pretty strongly.

Regarding Cool and Unusual Punishment, that's not necessarily what the Gene Hunt Interrogation Technique is about. Cool and Unusual Punishment is forcing them to watch Gigli—something that we wouldn't normally use as torture being treated as torture. Gene Hunt Interrogation Technique is shoving DVDs of Gigli up their nostrils—it's definitely torture, but there's like a macabre, creative absurdity to it.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Calling the crowner.

A better comparison be, "One's about forcing someone to watch Gigli... as punishment for wrongdoings, and the other is about forcing someone to watch Gigli to break down an uncooperative suspect under interrogation."

I really don't understand why "torture as an interrogation method" wouldn't be specific enough to set it apart from pages that broadly cover "torture in general".

Is there some kind of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques page that this can be sorted under, instead?

EDIT: Well, what do you know... (Although that page isn't exactly entirely what I had in mind)

edited 8th Nov '11 8:16:21 PM by SeanMurrayI

I tried to start an organization repair over in Trope Talk but no one ever showed up.

Fight smart, not fair.

Cutting is too extreme. That's a lot of redlinking to fix and a lot of out-of-site traffic broken. Merging would solve the 'too similar' problem without lossing traffic

Well, the winning option is a merge. *shrug*

Rhymes with "Protracted."

If there are pages "too similar" to each other and merit a merge, I'm all for it, but tropes specifically dealing with "torture as an interrogation technique" have got to be distinct enough from mere Cold-Blooded Torture to, at least, get called a Sub-Trope.

Second, interrogation =/= punishment; one is the act of seeking answers from a person which the individual would most desire to keep secret, usually through one of dozens Perp Sweating techniques. The other is the retribution dealt for past misdeeds and moral transgressions, possibly karmic. Cool and Unusual Punishment has nothing to do with what the principal tropes in this crowner are about.

The only kinds of tropes that should be fairly deemed "too similar" to tropes about "torture as interrogation technique" are ones, on the whole, about "torture as interrogation technique." Otherwise, what's "too similar" about the tropes?

edited 8th Nov '11 10:40:35 PM by SeanMurrayI

Has the merge been done?

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Bump.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

B-Bump. (Re-bump. Did we merge the trope?)

edited 17th Mar '12 6:57:06 PM by rjrya395

Bumping. It seems that the crowner's decisions were never executed and that no one is interested in doing so.

Also, the arguments on this page, esp. here and here and others make me think that this crowner was started with wrong ideas and picked up an impossible solution.

I think that we should either close this as Killed In Final Action or restart the whole discussion again instead of letting this thread decay until the end of all millenia.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I don't see what's so impossible about the consensual solution in the crowner. It's just that TRS includes several hundred open threads, so it is inevitable that some of them will stall for awhile.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

OK, looking up Jack Bauer Interrogation Technique, it seems to be "Torture used for gain of information, with no mention about the effectiveness, whereas Torture Always Works is "In fiction, torture always provides correct information" and Gene Hunt Interrogation Technique is "Torture to extract information, Played for Laughs"

The problem here is that while I can see how to merge Gene Hunt Interrogation Technique between Jackbauer Interrogation Technique and Cool and Unusual Punishment, I've no idea how to split Jack Bauer Interrogation Technique.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

And again bumping to get opinions about

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I think that torture for information simply falls under Cold-Blooded Torture, except if it's the Torture Always Works subtrope.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

That sounds like a stretch to me. "Torture for information" and "hurting people badly" are different tropes, I'd say. And I am not sure if all "torture for information" is also Cold-Blooded Torture - but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Clocking this by request.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

OK, that's just dumb - the thread is open despite the long expired clock (17 days and no activity since clocking or clock expiry). And it already stalled for 3 months once.

Requesting lock, don't decline without a good reason please.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman