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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
Sir Patrick Stewart is abandoning the Labour Party following an unpleasant encounter with Jeremy Corbyn. [1]
Edited by TommyR01D on Aug 16th 2018 at 4:17:02 AM
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That article's paywalled. Is there an alternative?
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Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
The Star Trek actor, who attended his first Labour event when he was five, said: “It doesn’t feel like my party any more” as he attacked Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership.
Sir Patrick recalled a frosty first encounter with the Labour leader a few weeks ago, saying: “He was talking to a group of my friends after a theatre performance and I wandered up to join them.
“Jeremy’s eye caught mine and he said ‘oh you’re looking very well’, and I made some light-hearted riposte along the lines of ‘you can’t judge a book by its cover’.
“For some inexplicable reason, this annoyed him, and he shot back ‘you know, Patrick, you could just have said thank you instead of making a joke out of it'.
“I couldn’t understand how he could take offence at such an utterly innocuous remark, and no one else could, and it made for rather an awkward silence. I just thought ‘oh well, I tried’, and, after a suitable interval, I discreetly headed off home.”
In an interview with The New European, Sir Patrick said: “To be perfectly honest, I find it difficult to understand what Labour really stands for or what it represents right now. It doesn’t feel like my party any more.”
He said he would be switching his allegiance to the Green Party at the next election as it was more in tune with his views on Brexit, as he accused Mr Corbyn of wanting a “disastrous Brexit” because it would “benefit him politically”.
He said: “It seems to me to be just plain wrong to play with the country’s future in this way.”
Sir Patrick, 78, stood with a placard urging support for the Labour candidate for Mirfield in West Yorkshire in 1945 had, until now, been an unswerving supporter of the Party.
Disasturbator
Sounds like the pressure he's under is really getting to him to snap at someone like Sir Patrick
I
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I doubt Sir Patrick would leave the party over just a rude comment, though. I wonder what else pushed him.
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From what I can see of the news articles I can find, Sir Patrick is taking his leave because of Labour's Brexit position. Regarding the encounter with Corbyn, both Sir Patrick and Corbyn have a history of sometimes putting their feet where their mouths should be, leaving everyone around them (or watching on television) feeling extremely awkward. The reason I say that is because it's not just Corbyn's response to Sir Patrick that seems peculiar, Sir Patrick's own comment to Corbyn seems rather odd as well.
I think the more important thing is the reason Sir Patrick states he's withdrawing his support for Labour, and that is Labour's Brexit position. I think a lot of Labour Remain voters are going to resonate with Sir Patrick's concern and frustration on that matter while Labour Brexit voters won't care. It would be interesting to see YouGov poll Labour voters to see what they think about Sir Patrick's concerns over Labour's position on Brexit.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
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Now, if only he'd just out and out said that and waffled less. It's bad enough with politicians being politicians, there's no need for everyone else to be circumspect.
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I can't complain about anyone waffling when I'm such a waffler myself. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
I understand Sir Patrick Stewart's concerns that Jeremy Corbyn is not fighting Brexit hard enough, given some of his past openly euroskeptical statements, makes me think it's because Corbyn actually wants it to happen.
But what I most worry about is that his waryness of the European Union is coupled with approval/desire for closer relationships to Russia, considering his absolutely weak response on the chemical attacks in Syria and the novichok poisonings.
Edited by Grafite on Aug 18th 2018 at 12:02:10 PM
Life is unfair...
His response to the Novichok poisonings was for UN and international convention to be followed to ensure that the UK's handling was above reproach — and because the Met was criticising the government for jumping the gun on some of the announcements it was making. His position on the Syria issue was actually well-supported by Opposition MPs across that side of the House, as it was on the grounds of legality, Parliamentary authority and that it was occurring before the UN investigative team could arrive at the site to validate the nature of the attack note Much of the Opposition shared at least some, and often all, of those concerns. The Iraq War is a big elephant that constantly sits in the House of Commons these days. I don't think that's going to go away any time soon.
I don't know if this is a strength or a weakness of Corbyn's, I have a suspicion that it's both, but — considering he's been an activist for his entire life and arrested at times for his activism — he's surprisingly 'by the book' in how he likes to do things. Depending on the situation, that can be seen as either a good thing or a cop-out.
I think Corbyn's issue with Brexit isn't because of his anti-EU history. The Old Labour group, when asked to choose what the worst option is between supporting the EU and supporting Tory power, will actually choose to support the EU. It might be a 'gun to the head' scenario, but that's how much they distrust the Tories. We've been seeing that in how they're behaving on the Brexit votes in Parliament — they're supporting the government on votes that are seen to be in line with 'the will of the people' but if the vote seems to be more about enabling Tory power or weakening rights, they vote Remain, not Brexit.
The problem with Corbyn is his passion for defending democracy and the people's right to vote in democratic elections. We saw it with the Labour leadership elections, and we're seeing with this Brexit position they've taken on the grounds of what they call Labour's 'unique' position regarding how voters' behaved in the referendum and how that splits across both party and constituencies (where Labour voters were approximately 66%/33% in favour of Remain but the spread meant that approximately 60%/30% of Labour constituencies classify as Leave).
For good or ill, this seems to be the hill he's willing to die on. That's why news outlets that reported on the YouGov poll that suggests a hundred Leave constituencies have now turned Remain were wondering whether or not it would affect Labour's position — because Labour's position so far has been based on 'the will of the people' argument.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 18th 2018 at 12:53:52 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Well, three guys in a pup posted another video today (this time discussing project fear) and one of them mentioned that he used to be a Labour voter but not anymore because of Brexit.
I said it before, but I think Corbyn miscalculated. By sitting on the fence and trying not to offend the minority of Brexit voters in the party, he angered the Remainers, who make up a way bigger percentage of the core voters and who feel betrayed by Labour's lack of resistance.
I think that Corbyn thought that by doing so, he would later be able to blame the fall-out of Brexit completely on the Tories, but he accidentally managed to put Labour into one boat with the Tories instead in the eyes of a lot of voters. And I know that some Tropers here don't see it that way themselves, but that's what I observe in general, Patrick Steward is just the latest prominent example.
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Oh yes, inconsistent support for other parties purely based on Brexit stance.
I sure look forward to that vote splitting giving the Tories a clear victory next time they call a general election.
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A procrastination in of itself
I’ve been open about my issues with Corbyn on Brexit (and foreign policy in general), shit I almost left the party over it myself, I’m still not convinced he isn’t kinda okay with Brexit, he’s certainly more okay with it than he should be considering who his constituents are and who his party base are.
But then make it about that, not about some weird personal snub, that just comes across as bloody petty.
As for Corbyn and Russia, there’s one giant issue with Corbyn and foreign policy, he’s a pacifist, that doesn’t work if you’re dealing with the world outside the safe confines of Islington, but he doesn’t seem to have realised that, when the buck stops with you you can’t realy get away with being a pacifist.
My biggest fear with Corbyn is that he may well be mroe commited to pacifism that socialism, if he is than that could end disastrously.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Rt Hon Sir Peter Tapsell, Father of the House of Commons 2010-2015, died yesterday aged 88.
Disasturbator
Heard on the news the government is going to publish notices in the event of a 'no deal' and speech from the Brexxit minster
I have a bad feeling about this,what's the worst that could happen?
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Oh, bother.
In the event of a No Deal, I expect the Brexit minister and a good number of Tories to have one way tickets to another country ready.
Disgusted, but not surprised
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
"Dear US,
Since you enjoyed the Piers Morgan experience, we thought you might like a little more oily creep from the same general barrel.
Yours sincerely,
The Tory Party."
I sometimes wonder whether Mr Corbyn was affected by the cultural narrative of the character Harry Perkins from A Very British Coup, probably the most successful figure heading Labour back in the darkest days of Thatcher.
“Perkins saved by Kremlin gold!”
Perkins (played by Ray McAnally) giving the tabloids their next headline, from the TV series.
◊
Edited by AlityrosThePhilosopher on Aug 19th 2018 at 7:12:35 PM
Just as my freedom ends where yours begins my tolerance of you ends where your intolerance toward me begins. As told by an old friend
I've found Sir Patrick Stewart's full interview, which was given to the The New European (I've never even heard of The New European until now, it's a news website from the Remain perspective).
It's a long interview and well worth reading in full. The mainstream media have only quoted pieces of the interview's introduction, there's so much more in the interview than what's been covered. For example, he doesn't say he's quit voting Labour. He says that if Labour doesn't change its stance on Brexit, he probably won't vote for them again and, if he doesn't, he'll probably vote Green. He talks about Brexit, Trump, the People's Vote campaign, and the trend towards popularity politics which is making it almost impossible to have a sensible public discussion about Brexit.
I'm quoting just the introductory section, but I recommend reading it in full.
Patrick Stewart: 'I find it difficult to know what Labour stands for'
The great actor duly spoke up for Jeremy Corbyn when he was elected leader and backed him at the last election, even if, in private, he was becoming, in common with a great many Labour members, frustrated and angry over his position on Brexit.
Still, Sir Patrick admits he was looking forward to seeing what Corbyn was like when, a few weeks ago, he got his first chance to meet him. He had hoped, even, to bend his ear on the issue he cares so much about. “He was talking to a group of my friends after a theatre performance and I wandered up to join them. Jeremy’s eye caught mine and he said ‘oh you’re looking very well’, and I made some light-hearted riposte along the lines of ‘you can’t judge a book by its cover’.
“For some inexplicable reason, this annoyed him, and he shot back ‘you know, Patrick, you could just have said ‘thank you’ instead of making a joke out of it.” I couldn’t understand how he could take offence at such an utterly innocuous remark, and no one else could, and it made for rather an awkward silence. I just thought ‘oh well, I tried’, and, after a suitable interval, I discreetly headed off home.”
The encounter symbolises the unhappy stage that Sir Patrick has come to in his relationship with a party that he has believed in passionately all his life. I ask him if he will be voting Labour again, and, after a long pause, he says, in a quiet and sad voice, probably not – so long as it supports Brexit and seems unable to deal swiftly and decisively with obvious evils such as anti-Semitism.
“If I didn't vote Labour, I would probably turn to the Green Party. I certainly agree with their positions on Brexit and climate change. To be perfectly honest, I find it difficult to understand what Labour really stands for or what it represents right now. It doesn’t feel like my party any more.
“I am not a politician and I am not a strategist, but I have a suspicion Jeremy believes a disastrous Brexit would benefit him politically, and, in all the chaos and confusion that would occur after the policy is implemented – in either a hard or a soft way, I might add – he sees himself taking power. It seems to me to be just plain wrong to play with the country’s future in this way.
“What Jeremy doesn’t appear to understand is that it would be the easiest thing in the world to attack the government on Brexit and to oppose it at every turn and to tear apart their arguments and expose it for what it is. There is, after all, nothing that is more opposed to basic Labour values than Brexit and I think just about everyone except him can now see that.”
In these unnervingly McCarthyite times, Sir Patrick has refused to be browbeaten into keeping his thoughts to himself on Brexit and this has resulted in him receiving online abuse – even threats of violence – and occasionally there have been confrontations in the street.
“Friends of mine have asked me if it’s sensible to get into all of this publicly, but I am 78 now and I think a lot about the kind of world my children and grandchildren will be left with and it worries me.
“I have had a chance to make something of my life and I want that for them, too. I am also a war baby – I was very aware, growing up, that families around me had lost people they loved and often depended upon in the war with Germany – and the EU always seemed to me to offer a way to ensure peace and stability in this increasingly uncertain world of ours. The EU is not perfect – I don’t pretend for one moment it is and it can be very annoying sometimes – but it seems to me it’s the least worst option we have, and, in terms of the things we don’t like about it, we should press hard to put them right.”
For all that he has achieved in his life, Sir Patrick is in person a humble, unassuming man and he strains throughout our conversation to make the point that he is talking not as a politician or an economist or whatever, but just as a private citizen who only went to a secondary modern school, but who happens nevertheless to care passionately about his country. He says that fundamentally his response to Brexit has been from the outset an emotional one.
It hurt him when he appeared on Andrew Marr’s show in the spring to launch the People’s Vote campaign and he found himself subjected to abuse of a kind that he had never received before from the right-wing press. He was portrayed as the privileged “Remainer luvvie” who had jetted in from a film set in LA to tell us all how stupid we had been to vote to leave the EU.
He happens to be very much a Londoner and his background hardly fits in with that notion – Dad was a sergeant major in the Army and Mum worked in a textile mill and money was in short supply as he was growing up – but he knew only too well what was going on.
“There is a new kind of anger and irrationality that Brexit has given expression to and it is worrying, but I will not be intimidated. I’ve had other issues I’ve cared about over the years – cannabis medicine, the right to die a dignified death, I’m a member of Amnesty International and I support Combat Stress, after seeing at first hand my father’s post-traumatic stress after the war – but I’ve never known a cause that it’s harder to have a practical and sensible conversation about than this one.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 19th 2018 at 3:15:06 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
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The New European's an actual newspaper (I only know this because I sometimes scan in/scan out newspaper deliveries and returns at work). It doesn't sell very well, though (at least in my store's town).
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A procrastination in of itself
I keep meaning to start picking it up, it’s very openly a paper for Remainers who think that this entire thing is a mess.
I guess my issue is the idea that Stewart doesn’t understand what Labour stands for, Corbyn has been bad on Brexit for many of us, he’s been waffley on it, but that’s one policy area, he’s been clear on everything else, he’s been bloody good on everything else.
I don’t like Corbyn’s foreign policy, I don’t like his stance on Brexit, but he stands for reigning in the excesses of the press barons, for ending austerity, for rebuilding the public sector, for helping the poor, for an economy that works for everyone, for good reliable provision of public services.
What Labour stands for is clear on everything but Brexit, the Brexit fog of war isn’t enough to undermine the good Labour stands for in other areas.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
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Speaking of unclear stances, what the hell are the Lib Dems standing for apart from Remain nowadays?
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They don't "stand" for anything. They bend over. 
They stand for the same progressive liberalism they always did and completely failed to push under Cameron.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
I think we need to embrace that stereotypical idea of Mediterranean politics - allow parties to implode, split and reform more easily.
Frankly the Tories are just a shell inhabited by UKI Ppers and Money-lenders. The Lib dems need to actually dissolve and reform as something else - or the Greens and they need to actually bury the hatchet and form a decent third alternative.
Labour probably does need to split - the centrists need their own party but they hang on because the Labour "brand" is recognisable. And the Tories... well they SHOULD reclaim their older roots and be what they propose. But they're a vehicle for vested interests now. And utterly in the thrall (Unwittingly) to hostile actors both domestic and foreign.
He did a pretty good job of building up that image over the years, his HIGNFY appearances in particular. It kinda evaporates when you start looking at the details and his actions over his words, but most of the electorate won't look that far and will probably go with whatever narrative that suits them after thinking about it for maybe 5 seconds.
A bit like May, she built up an image of being a little bit boring but at least competent and reliable - serious, no-nonsense professional kind of thing. Anyone who paid attention to her Home Secretary stint knew that she was dangerously authoritarian and really bad at her job, and this showed up in her General Election. Her strong reliable image was diminished.
Boris's buffoon image doesn't have to stand up to scrutiny like May's, since it's quite easy to fail at being reliable and competent, it's harder to 'fail' at being a foot-in-mouth buffoon, especially when you can make it charming and endearing.
But seriously, his ambition is so transparent that he might as well write in his column 'I want to be the next Prime Minister, and I will do absolutely anything to do it'. He's not hiding it very well.
Edit: Regarding Councillors, they (of all parties) often have to co-operate with other parties to get a majority and to push things through, so when you compare that to the Westminister set-up, which is set up so that it's one side facing against another (to facilitate the Eton-style Punch and Judy politics), rather than (for example) the Welsh Assembly, which has a circular arrangement (fostering co-operation), it's no wonder that councillors are more reasonable fellows.
Edited by GoldenKaos on Aug 15th 2018 at 4:07:28 PM
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."