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Rework or split off Disabled Cutie: Disabled Hottie

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Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
May 4th 2011 at 8:58:52 PM

Seeing as how anything that could remotely be labeled as anything cute was met with serious flames in the image picking thread. Maybe we should split off Disabled Cutie from this or rename to something more about general attractiveness.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
May 4th 2011 at 10:35:57 PM

Raso, the issue isn't cute vs. hot, but the fact that many tropers are uncomfortable having the page image on a trope about sex appeal look like an underage girl. It's not about cute vs. hot. It's adult vs. child.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
May 4th 2011 at 10:46:44 PM

That shouldn't matter at all. The trope should be General Attractiveness or split with Disabled Cuties or Disabled Moe on a new trope.

The way the trope is defined it has to be someone who is "Hot" yet it doesn't cover those that are Cute / Moe such as the entire cast of Katawa Shoujo, Hayate from Nanoha As, Nunnally from Code Geass (All those examples are on the page and the last one is an actual kid.)

edited 4th May '11 11:29:02 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
May 4th 2011 at 10:48:51 PM

It doesn't matter for trope examples. It does matter for trope images people are comfortable having on pages. Oggling children is creepy. We would like to avoid it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
May 4th 2011 at 10:53:27 PM

Who said anything about ogling like that? The Disabled Cutie is more for the Moe effect than that. Injury adds to the cuteness. [1]

A Cute girl with no arms should not be dismissed like that.

edited 5th May '11 2:08:29 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
May 4th 2011 at 10:54:09 PM

[up][up]Agree wholeheartedly, except for the use of "oggling" (the word is ogling).

edited 4th May '11 10:54:16 PM by nrjxll

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
May 4th 2011 at 11:28:06 PM

There is a "cuteness enhancing" effect from something that's injured. But it's more an "adorable" thing rather than an attractiveness thing like cute.

Fight smart, not fair.
Heatth from Brasil Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
May 5th 2011 at 1:44:04 AM

[up]I am not sure I follow the difference.

Anyway, I agree with this proposition. The difference is more or less the same as Hot Librarian from Cute Bookworm. One plays a certain trait for sexy, and the other for cuteness.

troacctid "." from California
May 5th 2011 at 1:57:27 AM

Seems like there'd be a lot of overlap with Wheelchair Woobie.

Rhymes with "Protracted."
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
May 5th 2011 at 2:24:05 AM

cute hot

Notice how one involves being physically attractive (hot) and the other involves warm fuzzies (cute).

Fight smart, not fair.
Heatth from Brasil Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
May 5th 2011 at 2:46:12 AM

I follow that difference. What I don't follow is the difference between "adorable" and "cute". Or maybe your post. Not sure now if I understood what you were saying.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
May 5th 2011 at 3:01:03 AM

I might be sleep depped. Let me scroll up and look.

But it's more an "adorable" cute thing, rather than an attractiveness thing.

Fix'd?

edited 5th May '11 3:01:51 AM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
May 5th 2011 at 4:28:39 AM

[up]x4 How so? you dont have to be The Woobie to be cute or cute to be The Woobie. As well as you don't have to be in a wheelchair to be disabled blind, deaf, mute, missing arms, legs ect. [1] [2] [3]

edited 5th May '11 4:36:49 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
May 5th 2011 at 12:36:15 PM

Yeah, but the whole reason that the disabled people are cute in these works are to give you Woobieish feelings. You're probably better off expanding Wheelchair Woobie than anything.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
May 6th 2011 at 1:41:30 AM

Well expanding it like that would probably mean renaming Wheelchair Woobie to Disabled Cutie or Disabled Woobie. (It doesn't help that we use two separate definitions for Woobie the tortured character aka the way its used in Iron Woobie and the tortured characters you feel sorry for The Woobie.)

edited 6th May '11 1:43:19 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Ezekiel Smooth as a Skunk from The Other Side
Smooth as a Skunk
May 6th 2011 at 1:56:43 AM

So wait. The contention is that examples of cute are fine in Disabled Hottie, but images are creepy paedophile stuff?

So how is calling a little girl a "hottie" any less wrong than having an image up for it?

I'd say if you're going to keep all the examples on the one page, rename the trope to the less creepy thing.

The comics equivalent of PTSD.
Heatth from Brasil Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
May 6th 2011 at 1:57:44 AM

@Deboss,

Yeah, thanks.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
May 6th 2011 at 5:55:01 AM

[up][up] Because the majority of those characters are apparently not little girls In-Universe. They're just drawn so that they look like they are. It's an art style issue.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
May 6th 2011 at 6:49:04 AM

Some are in fact kids Hayate from Nanoha As is in the third grade (seeing her smiling, doing housework, optimistic, and taking care of non-disabled but completely out of place people is just daww) and Nunnally in Code Geass is like nine. Both are both listed on the page.

Most of Disabled Hottie are already listed under Wheelchair Woobie anyway except for those not actually in one. But cutie vs hottie has been split before like Cute Bookworm vs Hot Librarian.

I am not opposed to expanding Wheelchair Woobie to be all disabilities I think it's a very good idea it's just it would need a rename (Personally I would ditch "woobie" as that word seems to have two meanings here one subjective and one not and ditch Wheelchair because it's more than that) and it still wouldn't really cover Disabled Cutie. Would you have the same reaction to say just Professor X vs the above example of a Moe girl with no arms who can't give people a hug? The latter would be a subtrope running on Rule of Cute (And most often an Iron Woobie.) and Disabled Hottie is already Wheelchair Woobie running on Rule of Sexy.

edited 6th May '11 7:23:03 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Scardoll Burn
Burn
May 6th 2011 at 7:04:20 AM

A librarian isn't the same thing as a bookworm.

Also, Wheelchair Woobie should just cover all disabled Woobiesh characters, with Disabled Woobie as a redirect.

edited 6th May '11 7:04:46 AM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
Ezekiel Smooth as a Skunk from The Other Side
Smooth as a Skunk
May 6th 2011 at 8:50:36 PM

[up]If you did that Wheelchair Woobie would instantly become a Nonindicative Title since it would cover, I daresay, primarily characters not in wheelchairs, as the inability to walk is only one type of disability. And I'm still not sure I buy that a cute character with a disability is automatically a woobie. And again I'm going to reference Nunnaly. So she's blind and crap, and decidedly adorable, but is she really pitiable? In many respects she's better off than a good portion of the main cast and virtually all tertiary characters for most of the series.

The comics equivalent of PTSD.
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever...
Together Forever...
May 6th 2011 at 9:00:08 PM

[up]

And she's got her own alternate universe manga where she's not just not a woobie, she's goddamn badass.

So yeah.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
May 6th 2011 at 9:18:42 PM

I'd say there's a difference between a normal Wheelchair Woobie and someone missing body parts.

Fight smart, not fair.
Heatth from Brasil Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
May 6th 2011 at 11:07:51 PM

[up][up][up]I kinda agree with you on Nunnaly, she is not much of a Woobie during the first season, while still cute. However, her role in R2 as well as her backstory does have Woobie traits, so she isn't a good example.

If we need examples from Disabled Cutie who is not The Woobie, Katawa Shoujo is the best place to look. The whole thing was built around the concept of Disabled Cutie, however, the only character who (so far) is The Woobie is the one who, ironically, does not have a "real" disability.

On the flip side, Acro from Ace Attorney is definitively a Wheelchair Woobie but not so much of a Disabled Cutie.

edited 6th May '11 11:12:06 PM by Heatth

Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
May 21st 2011 at 2:23:14 AM

[up] Exactly as well as Professor X who isn't a Cutie. Then add Hayate to the mix who isn't so much a Wheelchair Woobie so much as a Wheelchair Iron Woobie who lives alone, cooks, cleans, does everything and would only be in the third grade. (Only a woobie in the view of the other characters in universe.)

Being Disabled is more than just a wheelchair though.

Katawa Shoujo lets see

  • The MC (AKA you) Hisao Nakai has congenital arrhythmia aka a ticking time bomb in his chest.
  • Emi Ibarazaki: amputated legs she does not use a wheelchair she uses stilt like things to walk. [1] and is very much the Genki Girl.
  • Lilly Satou: Blind (She is the only one I would consider hot.)
  • Rin Tezuka: born without arms she uses her feet to do most of her stuff. [2]
  • Shizune Hakamichi: deaf and mute.

The entire game is built on the fact that the disabilities make them cuter mostly because they don't let their disabilities get to them (some even snark about it.) like a Disabled Iron Woobie.

edited 21st May '11 3:50:11 AM by Raso

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SingleProposition: DisabledHottie
25th Nov '11 6:45:12 PM

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Total posts: 51
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