General Star Wars Animated Series

I'm still put out that we never saw an imperial Cody. I spent all of Rebels looking forward to it.

And then Cody and Rex would have run into each other and this would have happened.

I never felt that anything was really done with Cody, character or focus wise. To me he’s just “that guy who shows up next to Obi-Wan every once in a blue moon”. The most I can say about him is that in Legends he had a funny mental facepalm when Order 66 came down in the novelization.

So if there had been some showdown or reveal of him my reaction would’ve been “oh okay I guess”.

Maybe I need to rewatch TCW and see if I missed or forgot something, but I’ve just never understood the appeal of him.

Edited by TheAirman on Aug 28th 2018 at 5:40:32 AM

He's supposed to be Obi-wan's number one guy, like Rex was to Anakin. For some reason Rex got a ton of screen-time in the show, but Cody got jack all.

Edited by WillKeaton on Aug 28th 2018 at 4:49:01 AM

I figure it’s because Obi-Wan doesn’t really need a foil the way Anakin does.

As the maverick of the cast Anakin always has someone to bounce off of: Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Rex, Padme... while Obi-Wan can generally carry a scene or even a story by himself.

Cody gets some friendly scenes with obiwan in ROTS. Right before he then tries to murder him with a cannon

Edited by RussellStar5641 on Sep 1st 2018 at 2:27:18 PM

Honestly, it looks really good!

People are going to whine that they’re making it specifically for a younger audience, but why is that supposed to be a bad thing, exactly?

Because Star Wars: Clone Wars looms over the series like the Death Star over a planet.

Clone Wars was a rarity in this day and age, an all ages show that is actually for all ages. It appeals to children without speaking down to them, and appeals to adults with tight plotting and interesting characters, and does it without alienating the younger viewers. Losing that idea is ultimately something that will be held against any series that follows Clone Wars.

Edited by Beatman1 on Aug 29th 2018 at 2:01:21 PM

I disagree with that. TCW was great. It’s a kid’s show that explored some pretty mature ideas and was easily appreciated by adults as a result. But a lot of that happened after the halfway point, and it was always aimed at older children anyway. It straddles the same PG/PG-13 line that the movies do on a regular basis (and there’s a quote by George somewhere that confirms that’s what they were going for).

There’s actually surprisingly little original Star Wars media aimed specifically at children under 10. Most of what there is for them is storybook adaptations of the movies or Rebels episodes.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Aug 29th 2018 at 1:13:00 PM

I'd argue Clone Wars was ultimately more juvenile than The Clone Wars was. It had the grim and visceral action that Genndy mastered in Samurai Jack, but had a lot less of those deeper character moments and mature themes that The Clone Wars was far better at inserting into its characters and stories.

But even so, the portion of the fanbase it influences is way smaller than that of The Clone Wars, even amongst longtime fans who've followed the television shows for ages. I'm not sure I would agree that it looms dramatically over perception of the franchise to a major extent. It's a great series, but in terms of impact it's ultimately soemthing of a footnote: the only thing you really see people referencing about it is Grievous' introduction.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 29th 2018 at 12:09:21 PM

The problem is that a "silly children's show" (rather than the more mature line-straddling TCW and Rebels to a lesser extent went for) is the last thing the franchise needs right now. The era Resistance is set is a proverbial barren wasteland in the new canon, and the hope was that Dave Filoni would make that era as politically complex and interesting as he managed to do with the Clone Wars era and the Dark Times. Now that's out of the window.

Given that Rebels started the same way and we literally know nothing about the show but a trailer, doomsaying the series as having no actual deeper development in the sequel era is premature at best.

The sequel trilogy needs context, and a tv show will give that regardless. Especially a show by Filoni, who's entire specialty is context. Assuming that he's suddenly lost any and all capacity to write a complex story simply because we don't like the subject matter he's given - especially on absolutely nothing but a knee-jerk basis - is ridiculous.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 29th 2018 at 12:18:03 PM

I'm not doomsaying, I'm pointing that a children's show with no greater pretensions (as Bad Wolf was saying this could/should be) does not sit well for a lot of people at the state this franchise is in right now. That's why people are reacting badly to the idea of this being nothing more than that.

For Rebels, while from day 1 it seemed a less grim than TCW, there were always hints of deeper explorations (with the Inquisitor and whatnot), plus the fact it was actually helmed by Dave Filoni himself. I feel it'd alleviate a lot of people's fears about this show if the marketing ran "damage control" and focused more on other elements of the show that aren't "this group of kids has wacky adventures".

The Inquisitor was absolutely nothing but a Saturday-Morning Cartoon villain from day one, and the show eventually left him behind - but he was a good symbol of the show's start as something more accessible and catered to a lighter audience. More to the point, the series got exactly the same "this is just a kids cartoon! It's not what this franchise needs!" gripes as Resistance is getting now. So did Clone Wars, when it first started. Nothing's changed. Given the pattern, I'm not inclined to assume the problem is with the series but with the fans having a hardcoded knee-jerk negativity.

Looking to the "state of the franchise" as a gauge on whether to do things like this is also a bad idea, because of that negativity. The state we're in is that a certain subsection of the fanbase is being very loud and very controlling about the franchise only catering to what they want. Those people shouldn't be encouraged. You could even argue that the series needs things like this that appeal to the younger audiences right now, because the series desperately could use that influx of new fans.

Let Filoni make the shows he's going to make, and trust that he is going to accomplish what he always accomplishes. Like I said, nothing changed. He hasn't inexplicably lost his ability to write or coordinate. He knows what he's doing, and he's always good at building stories that appeal to both young fans and more experienced fans.

And to be short, claiming the show has "no greater pretensions" is, again, a total assumption with nothing to really support it - given the Rebels started the same way and Filoni himself is famous for gradually weaving plot into lighter series.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 29th 2018 at 12:42:57 PM

Once again, I was responding to Bad Wolf's basic gist of "what's wrong with a basic children's cartoon that's less mature than TCW and Rebels?". I wasn't necessairily saying this show would be one. But if it isn't, it hasn't helped its own case.

Filoni is not the showrunner of this cartoon because he's busy with the final season of TCW, is what has changed. He's just a creative consultant (for now) like George Lucas was for The Clone Wars. Still a important role, but he's no longer running the show, which is part of what doesn't inspire hope about this (at least this first season).

There is nothing really problematic about just saying the evidently obvious: the marketing thus far hasn't really helped its case (which, to be fair here, the marketing for TCW and Rebels didn't really help as well). The Rebels marketing almost immediately switched gears to this trailer:

Which showcased the more mature elements of the show to help win the fanbase. When the Inquisitor was announced as a villain, he was announced along the promise of being a serious opponent (something supported by his grittier design) and with the hint the Inquisitor could bring out more about the Empire, the Sith and Darth Vader himself (as he eventually did). Now, whether he was actually a serious opponent or not is a different matter, but the marketing made sure to at least tease him as one. The Resistance's marketing team should follow suit to show this show has teeth by perhaps teasing some less silly side-characters or elements of the story to inspire more confidence. Like, one presumes, the main villain of this show, whoever that is.

In a side-note, It's honestly gotten to a pretty exhausting point where you cannot criticize any creative decisions in this franchise without talk of the "toxic negativity of Star Wars fans". Which, mind you, is absolutely a thing, but we're running into a point where it's getting absurd how every criticism is lumped into that.

Here's the problem with everything you've said: you're still approaching it as if the only way this show can be good is if it shares the same tone as the previous two series. Because that's what you like.

This show is allowed to be different. You want context for the sequel era (something that I don't agree is strictly necessary yet either, but that's a whole other argument that I am not going to engage in today so don't even bother trying), but this show may not be the place that happens and that's ok. You may not like it, and that's also ok. But complaining that it's not exactly what you want and therefore is bad is just...stupid. And that's not what you've been doing here, but it is sort of the default starting position of this fanbase. Always has been. Makes it frustrating to talk to people about something I love (and is the main reason you won't catch me in the general Star Wars thread).

Also, Filoni is the producer in charge of all of Lucasfilm Animation. Justin Ridge, the supervising director for Resistance, has worked under Dave since the Last Airbender days, and was his personally-appointed successor for the second half of Rebels. So maybe we don't fly off the handle just because Dave isn't personally directing this show, please.

All of this aside, there are hints of depth in the trailer we just saw. Yeager is an old soldier, from back in the Rebellion days. Their job is to spy on the First Order; the Imperial Remnant. If you think there's going to be no pathos to be had from that, then I don't know what to tell you.

At the same time it is worthwhile keeping in mind that different does not mean good, or that just because you are allowed to be different doesn't mean that you should.

Chosen by Filoni or not, it remains to be seen how Justin Ridge stands on his own without Filoni's much praised writing/directing. It's a uncertain situation one way or another. On its own, it is no reason to be panicking, but combined with the not-so-good marketing thus far it conjures up a storm. All I'm asking is that if they plan on doing something deeper, market that.

Those are possibilities more so than hints (we are yet to see the actual infiltration treated with some pathos or the actual First Order opposition they're up against). I don't think we've even been introduced to the main antagonist in any way yet. About the only actual hint of something deeper we see is Yeager being an old soldier of the Rebellion and a more serious and solemn character compared to the teenage cast.

See, now you've said something stupid.

Just because something is different doesn't make it automatically good, no. But trying new things is good. They should always be trying new things. If they don't work, then you don't try them again, but if you don't try at all, then what are you even doing? You're not creating at that point. You're stagnant. That attitude is very much "This isn't what I like, and therefore it is bad."

Edited by BadWolf21 on Aug 29th 2018 at 4:26:08 AM

I already like Neaku

You misunderstand me. They should be trying new things, but they should have the presence of mind to decide when things are better as they are and when change is necessary as well as when change is not. To pick a deliberately absurd example: Say, making the next Star Wars movie about a Gungan monologuing to the screen for two hours about suicide would be a radical change for the franchise, but it would not be a good one. However, making a Star Wars movie with no Jedi is a change of pace to the franchise, and a refreshing new take.

New things aren't good, new things aren't bad, new things are new things. For my part (and for example) I'm a firm believer that Star Wars need to move on from the same old aesthetic and tropes they've been shackled to for quite some time, but replacing them with worse ones isn't going to do anyone any favors.

In this particular instance, my take is: the (entirely hypothetical thus far, I'd like to note) possibility that this show would be a "children's cartoon with no greater pretensions" is a change, but not a good one. Partly because I don't see how TCW and Rebels don't appeal to both children and adults in new and engaging ways.

Because "children" is not one category. TCW was aimed primarily at kids 12 and up. I would say Rebels was probably made for a slightly younger group. Say, 10-12 or so. By all appearances, Resistance is aimed at a group under the age of 10. That's not a group that Star Wars actually caters to very much, and trying to capture their attention at a young age is a good thing.

Just because the show is aimed at a younger demographic does not mean that there won't be things about it for adults to enjoy (indeed, parents wanting to watch Star Wars with their kids is a huge part of the reason the franchise is still going at all). But it probably won't be as complex as TCW or Rebels. And that's not the end of the world.

EDIT: Also, what you're asking for is not actually new. You seem to want Resistance to engage with both children and adults in the same way that the previous shows have.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Aug 29th 2018 at 4:45:25 AM

I don't know if TCW only appeals to the teenage group. I feel that, were I in my youth when TCW came out, it'd have appealed to me. So my question is if they can't do both. What group does The Lion King caters to, for example? It strikes to me as being a very wide net.

Yes. That's more or less what I'm trying to say. Changing that is not a good idea if you ask me, what should be new is the narrative, the aesthetic, the characters, the story routes, the themes, e.t.c. The way to engage the audience was something they (again, hypothetically) should have kept in my opinion.

Movies are not television. They aren't made in the same way. Movies have to appeal to as broad an audience as possible, where television tends to be more focused. Yes, they want as large an audience as they can get too, but some realities of the medium (things like network and time slot) have an effect on how it is made.

Also, The Lion King is transcendent.

Engaging the audience the same way as the previous series is mutually exclusive with making a show for younger children. By definition, the way you engage with your audience is different when they're at an earlier stage of development.

Nothing you've said so far has me convinced that your concern over Resistance is anything more than it not appealing to your taste.

It doesn't make sense at this point to assume they're not doing both, at least not moreso than the alternative. Prior installments and experience would imply that this, like all their other shows, is aimed at kids but will have appeal for older fans. They've yet to make a series that isn't like that.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 29th 2018 at 3:23:51 AM