Spider-Man General Discussion

Black Cat is fantastic.

That is all.

I thought she was bad luck.

God that is awful.

Is that canon?

Yes, it was written as a prelude to Clone Conspiracy. When Gwen came back, she told Peter about that moment and they buried the hatchet.

Well, that deals with the fact that Gwen was one of the few people in the supporting cast to not learn Peter's secret.

Funnily enough, I forgot about that little detail. It does reinforce my thoughts that she should have learned about it back then. Yes, it would have been pointless drama (cause it was the silver age....or rather, it's comics period), but if they'd been willing, it could have lead to some actual Character Development for her.

Hooboy I have thoughts on that. lol

Like the big show of an apology he put on earlier this year only came about because he was getting into it with someone on Twitter and he noticed they had a Silk avatar and he went "well you should thank me for creating your favorite character." And then people started laying into him for just how tone-deaf his writing of Silk really was by making her hyper-sexualized and sex-crazed. And even then, he mass-blocked anyone who criticized him first before he put out that statement lol

I read Clone Conspiracy recently and thought it was mediocre. I liked some things about it - giving Gwen and Mattie new more agentic/less damsel-y deaths, the issues spotlighting various supporting characters' reactions to Jackal's tech, Slott finally admitting the Ock/Anna pairing was skeevy - but on the whole I thought it didn't have the emotional weight you'd think a story like this would. I was especially disappointed that all these resurrected villains were brought in, including really obscure ones like Kangaroo and that "replacement" Green Goblin that lasted about five seconds, and then didn't really do anything apart from basically being Elite Mooks with names. And the "oh by the way they'll all turn into zombies" business felt like something tacked on last minute solely for Jackal to lose the moral high ground.

There's a whole "What If" about Gwen finding out and surviving her fall off the bridge. After Peter resuscitates her, she hears him out as he confesses everything to her on the pier and forgives him, then accepts his marriage proposal. I'm no Gwen fan but it's honestly the sweetest take on that scenario. The issue even ties up Norman and Peter's feud without a real tragedy and Harry even comes out of it better off. It's a shame the issue concludes on a Downer Ending and a cliffhanger, and there's never been a continuation (which is the case with a lot of What Ifs from back then)

I read that what-if just two days ago, lol!

It sort of goes off the rails in the ending, IMO. Really weird conclusion. But prior to that it's very interesting.

Yeah, there's no way Marvel writes a What If involving Spidey that's more happier than the main verse, especially one that gets married. Except possibly the four arms one.

@Lionheart: Wow that sounds really messed up, I don't really follow creator antics especially on twitter.

As for the Clone Conspiracy, I think some possible backdoor is that the Gwen in the story is technically a clone, even if Ben goes on a big speech over how they are being revived.

Since like the process was also used to " revive " people who were also still alive like Prowler as well as Peter in Doc Ock's body. (Granted I'm still confused about that plot point so Ock might as well have killed the original Peter again.)

Renew Your Vows had a much happier married Spider-Man and it didn't have one sour spot in it, not even at the conclusion. Hell his daughter went on to become a god keeping the multiverse spinning, showing just how successful Peter and MJ were at raising her.

Also, Mayday's dad got resurrected with the powers of The Other by Slott, so it's fair to say he's probably in a much healthier state these days compared to how he was throughout the Spider-Girl run with his handicap.

Edited by Zarius on Oct 26th 2021 at 12:36:27 PM

Yeah but that story has the rest of the Marvel verse dead.

Except the X-Men, and the power pack.

Still, I think it's Dan Slott's best story.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 26th 2021 at 3:42:26 PM

Plus Jean Grey bared Wolverine's spawn.

Truly a dark timeline.

Speaking of renew your vows, I do wish that Slott made Green Goblin the main villain of the story instead of Regent. Slott can actually write a pretty effective Green Goblin as a villain.

Exactly, it's all upside.

Pls no i have extreme Norman fatique

fucker should have never come back

Edited by Saiga on Oct 26th 2021 at 2:28:30 AM

I think it was stated by the creatives around the time that what happened in Slott's version of Renew Your Vows only counted when it was a part of the Battleworld and everyone was revived when it became it's own universe.

I thought the ongoing series was just a Broad Strokes continuity with the miniseries and the heroes never died.

Which initially put me off, if it's not the same continuity as the mini that got me interested.

Bah, Norman fatigue or not, he's still a better villain than boring Regent. I'm in the camp that Clone Saga bringing him back was one of the few good things the Clone Saga did.

He's Spider-Man's greatest villain after all, and him being the Big Bad of something like Renew Your Vows would be quite fitting. Regent is just some generic bad guy who wants to collect powers and take over the world, there's no personal history or enmity between him and Spidey.

And aside from Superior, Go Down swinging, and the whole bit with Sin Eater and Kindred, Norman hasn't been tormenting Spidey much.

Doc Ock's been more of a recurring villain than Norman has.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 26th 2021 at 10:17:26 AM

And now he's had all of the evil literally shot out of him and is an atonement-seeking good guy.

For however long that will last.

Apologies if I'm breaking the flow of this thread's conversation, but I just wanted to pop a question here: out of all the villains in Spidey's Rogues Gallery, which ones genuinely consider him their Arch-Enemy, their most hated foe and the bane of their existence, and which ones regard him more of an obstacle to their goals? Reason I'm asking is 'cause the Arch-Enemy trope page states that "Especially in the case of a Rogues Gallery, the hero is usually considered an Arch-Enemy to all of his villains, but he doesn't treat all of them as such. Electro, Rhino, Scorpion, and others all consider Spider-Man their most hated foe, but compared to the Goblin, Venom, or Doc Ock, Spidey regards these guys more like superpowered nuisances." But if one looks at the Scorpion's page, it says that J. Jonah Jameson and him are arch-enemies. Any thoughts?

From what I know, Shocker always tries to treat his fights with Spidey as merely business he has to deal with before he can make his big score.

He's always avoided the Arch-Enemy thing. Not sure how solid that characterization has stuck however.

Scorpion can have more than one arch enemy, he blames and hates JJJ for his condition and hates Spider-Man for stopping and beating the shit out of him.

Hell there was one time, when Scorpion was considering reforming only to meet with a pissed Spider-Man who really needed a punching bag and beat Scorpion so hard that he swore revenge and abandoned reform.

Dammit Peter

Scorpion was pretty much a worse Venom before Venom was a thing. Then he became Venom, and was a worse Venom than the actual Venom.