The Order of the Stick

True, learning that just one world was destroyed before yours is frightening but can still leave you hope, learning that millions of previous worlds were destroyed would fill you with utter dread and hopelessness.

Aren't the gods explicitly forbidden from talking about the Snarl and anything related to it to anyone not already in the know?

Yes, although Minrah just hearing the word “Snarl” was good enough for Thor, so Soon seeing a hole in nothing with a monster in it probably would’ve been enough, too.

The gods reset the outsider's memories every time they recreate the world.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1147.html

I assume this also applies to mortal survivors living on the outer planes.

Soon saw the Snarl kill his wife right in front of his eyes. I assume that qualifies as "learning of the Snarl's existence" enough for one of the Southern Gods to contact him. He was a Paladin so praying for guidance and receiving information isn't that abnormal. The deity was obviously being very selective in what they told him though.

Durkon and Minrah are probably the first mortals to learn that there were other worlds than the first and their current one.

Given the context of today's comic, I assume the title is a shout-out to Girlfriend Reviews. And if it's not, it should be.

I suppose after learning about Tarquin and Elan's mom, we should have seen something like this coming.

I'll be honest, I misread the last word here the first time I read this post and thought someone had guessed the MitD is a Salad. Which is now what I'm imagining him to be. He'd probably be right at home in the Semi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing...

So... either a nice, herby green with plenty of fennel and/or curly endive.

Or a lost coleslaw (with banana and apple).

For what it's worth, Plane Shift takes 1 standard action to cast.

So the casting time's about 6 seconds. As long as the world doesn't end in a surprise round, Hilgya's got time to take Kudzu and vanish as soon as the planet starts quaking or whatever.

And IIRC the Snarl's fast, but not that fast. Doesn't it take something like 20-30 minutes for it to unmake a world?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 24th 2019 at 11:47:36 AM

I mean, I still feel that Hilgya is a horribly unfit parent, and this actually goes against previously established themes, but I also figured something like this was going to happen.

So I guess this is the best possible way to undergo a resolution I really didn't want. This isn't a getting a "d'awwwwww" out of me, but it's not as bad as it could have been.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 24th 2019 at 1:11:48 PM

I'm wondering now which of the Southern gods told Soon about the Snarl. Monkey or Rat both seem like they might be trickster types, and trickster gods giving forbidden knowledge to humans is a pretty classic trope...

Gah! I was so taken in by the cuteness, I forgot about the vampire that popped up in front of Hilgya.

I can't help but think back at Tarquin, and how Mr. Burlew specifically went out of his way to show that a person can't be a torturing mass-murderer without it pleading into their family life, indicating that Tarquin was never a fit parent to begin with, and not think there is something amiss with him also going "yes, Hilgya is delusional and short-tempered and incredibly quick to jump to murder as a solution to her problems and when she's upset, and willing to put her whims ahead of her child's safety, but still, her staying in her son's life is a good thing".

For any and all valid complaints of sexism in media in general, and Oots specifically (and they certainly exist, I'm not denying that) I've noticed a lot of people going "you're only criticizing Hilgya as a parent because of sexism" and, well, that just strikes me as complete bullshit.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 24th 2019 at 5:50:55 AM

"Popped up"? It was more like "passed by while fleeing for her metaphorical life". She's not gonna hang around and attempt to attack two high-powered clerics, if that's what's worrying you.

That's not what I'm getting from this. All that's been established is that she will at least keep him safe in the crisis to come. Beside, her not being in her son's life has never been on the table.

yes, Hilgya is delusional and short-tempered and incredibly quick to jump to murder as a solution to her problems and when she's upset, and willing to put her whims ahead of her child's safety, but still, her staying in her son's life is a good thing

I don't think that's what's going on here. Durkon isn't saying Hilgya is a good parent, he's just saying he'd rather she bamf out of dodge with Kudzu if things go sideways with the Snarl situation than his son be obliterated in the ensuing soul cash-out. He seems pretty clear that once the reality-threatening doom scenario is resolved, their parental situation with Kudzu is going to be a topic of series discussion.

I know it's never been on the table. I specifically calling on the situation being written in such a way that that is the case.

And, yeah, they talk about how after this is over they'll iron out the exact arrangement, but there's no implication Durkon wants to remove her from his life. Which is a problem as far as I'm concerned.

And, like, I get where it comes from. Durkon was raised with only one parent and even now, though he knows why that is, still has trouble accepting it sometimes so I ge he wouldn't want the same thing for his son. I get that angle of Mr. Burlew writing this. My contention is that Durkon's father was actually good and almost certainly would have been a good parent, whereas I don't see that being the case for Hilgya (whether Hilgya is capital E Evil according to the alignment system has basically no baring on my feelings here).

But, like I said, I had expected a resolution like this since the very beginning. I'm resigned to it, even though I don't really like it.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 24th 2019 at 7:09:09 AM

I feel like you have the read Hilyga with a lot of bias to think she's not a good mother- specifically I don't think she's ever put Kuzon's safety and well being second, ever. The point that she's a powerful abjuration user who can keep Kuzon safe better then any flunkies of Thor is a good one, and when things looked uncertain during the battle vs the Archon she immediately when to go to Kuzon and be ready to escape.

I mean, I completely disagree with that assessment. You know what would have been a good show of putting him first: leaving after she found out about the danger instead of insisting on dragging him into it or, better yet, not taking him on her revenge/closure quest to begin with.

She also didn't walk away from the battle because things were turning south - she walked away because she didn't care enough to stay, and does not give Kudzu's safety as her main reason for leaving.

But I'm tired of debating people who will defend any decision she makes no matter what, because I've done that a lot today already.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:42:04 AM

The bottom line is that the series so far has made the point that one can't be a good parent if they aren't a good person in general. Hilgya isn't a good person by any means. So while she may genuinely love and care for her son, she's still too awful a person to be a good parent to him.

The only character close to an exception to this so far is Tarquin's associate Laurin — and that's only because she made a point of keeping her child away from everything she does. Her daughter doesn't even know her mother is a villain.

Edited by M84 on Sep 25th 2019 at 12:32:50 AM

Laurin never came across as all that bad to me- she was kinda 'I'm doing terrible thing and enabling awful people, but it's worth it because it's the only way to bring stability to this continent'.

Like, maybe she's evil, but she's at least got the decency to be ashamed of being a bad person, and works to avoid being a bad influence on her loved ones. Which makes her a completely different breed from Tarquin and Hilgya.

i think durkon wants to at least give her a chance. it fits with his character to think she deserves a chance to be a good mother. i don't see him allowing her to stick around in any capacity if she blows it.