History Main / NoPointsForNeutrality

** [[UpToEleven And even more]] with ''VideoGame/MassEffectAndromeda'', which does away with Karma and Reputation entirely. Instead it restructures dialogue options to be based on tone and personality rather than morality, allowing for greater roleplaying options, while still including plenty of important binary decisions to make (in these cases it's up to the player to judge what's good or bad).

** Averted in the first game. Your KarmaMeter ''unlocks'' the full range of the Charm and Intimidate skills to use "Persuasion" options, but there you can max out the skills and then start a NewGamePlus to play as you want while keeping the rewards. The only real penalty for neutrality is being locked out of two alignment-based side missions (one for Paragons, one for Renegades). That being said, when it comes to dialogue choices this trope is extremely literal: Neutral options never earn Morality Points, and has a reputation for having the most uninteresting outcomes and responses compared to the heartwarming Paragon options and the hilariously evil Renegade ones.
** ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' makes this even worse by tying the unlocks of Persuasion options to your Paragon/Renegade points in an over-complicated and punishing manner.[[labelnote:Explanation]]They check not how many Paragon/Renegade Points you have, but the ratio of how many you COULD have considering the Missions you've done versus the maximum amount possible to earn in them[[/labelnote]]. This punishes characters who avoid going Paragon or Renegade (or flip-flop between them), making it ''incredibly'' easy to get locked out of picking anything if you play the Missions in a certain order. While complicated and annoying, this actually makes a certain amount of sense. A person that flip flops between being compassionate or threatening would naturally have a harder time convincing someone they were being genuine. And when you can pick between a Paragon, Renegade or Neutral option, Neutral is ''still'' the least-interesting one.
** Even further averted in ''VideoGame/MassEffect3''. Paragon and Renegade now both add to the same bar, the Reputation bar, which can also be increased by getting non-alignment Reputation Points (which increase the size of the bar while maintaining the same Paragon to Renegade ratio). ''3'' also removed Neutral options entirely since players so rarely picked them.
** Played straight in the original trilogy when it comes to some of the bigger decisions, in that the third game for the most part rewards players who have played their characters consistently as a Paragon/Renegade. For example, curing the genophage will give good results if Paragon decisions were made and key characters are alive, while sabotaging the cure will only give profitable results if you made the right Renegade decisions in the past. Similarly, dealing with the Rachni Queen consistently is the only way to get a positive outcome; dealing with it inconsistently can result in less war assets or even negative results.
** [[UpToEleven And even more]] with ''VideoGame/MassEffectAndromeda'', which does away with Karma and Reputation entirely. Instead it restructures dialogue options to be based on tone and personality rather than morality, allowing for greater roleplaying options.

** In the sequel (although it was made by Obsidian), both your Prestige Class and access to the tomb on Korriban require you to be at least 75% aligned one way or the other.
** Also in ''The Sith Lords'', your Pet Crystal will still be super-powerful if you are neutral. This doesn't really make up for the loss of prestige classes, which require extremes, as you would still have a pretty decent crystal.

* Also see ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' in the Creator/BioWare section.

* In ''Franchise/StarWars: [[VideoGame/DarkForcesSaga Dark Forces 2]]: [[VideoGame/DarkForcesSaga Jedi Knight]]'', as well as the sequels, [[ColonCancer Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy]], you can go down either the light side or the dark side.
** Although ''[[VideoGame/DarkForcesSaga Dark Forces 2]]'', at least, is an aversion in multiplayer: only full Light- or Dark-siders can use the most powerful Force powers, but neutral characters can use a balance of both, making them more versatile. The single player mode doesn't have this option.
** Everything after the first Jedi Knight either has only one ending or a single moment where you choose. Kyle himself is in fact neutral, being loyal to the Republic but not actually a follower of the Jedi philosophy and with full access to all the force powers from both sides in the later games. Jaden from the last game will probably also end up this way for most players, since the good-aligned powers are totally useless other than healing.
*** Given that in Jedi Academy your Light-side or Dark-side alignment is decided by pretty much one choice with no effect on gameplay besides the final mission (Luke and Kyle caution you about using too many Dark-side powers between missions if you take too many but there's no effect besides that), it's entirely possible that you'll wind up as a Light-side character with loads of Dark-side powers. That guy using loads of arc-lightning and telekinetically throwing people off of high things? Yeah, he's a good guy. Can't you tell?

** And Inverted in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosUltimate'': [[spoiler:refusing to pick a side between [[LightIsNotGood Galeem]] and [[DarkIsEvil Dharkon]] results in the GoldenEnding]].

* Mostly averted in ''VideoGame/AceCombatZeroTheBelkanWar''. Playing the 'Soldier' Ace Style is just as viable as the two others, but it's ''much'' harder to maintain, particularly if you're after the Supreme Soldier medal, which requires you to finish the game with the karma meter almost perfectly in the middle (in essence, you need to shoot down exactly half the yellow targets in every mission)

** Played straight by a series of spells in D&D 3.5 (Holy Word, Blasphemy, Dictum and Word of Chaos) that inflict StandardStatusEffects up to and including instant death not on those with the opposite alignment, ''but on everyone in range who's not the spell's own alignment.'' Trying to blast away a bunch of demons slaughtering the city militia with a Holy Word? Better hope that the entire militia is staffed by self-sacrificing do-gooders, because every neutral one is going to bite the dust as well...

** ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' makes this even worse by tying the unlocks of Persuasion options to your Paragon/Renegade points in an over-complicated and punishing manner.[[labelnote:Explanation]]They check not how many Paragon/Renegade Points you have, but the ratio of how many you COULD have considering the Missions you've done versus the maximum amount possible to earn in them[[/labelnote]]. This punishes characters who avoid going Paragon or Renegade (or flip-flop between them), making it ''incredibly'' easy to get locked out of picking anything if you play the Missions in a certain order. And when you can pick between a Paragon, Renegade or Neutral option, Neutral is ''still'' the least-interesting one.

** ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' characters who avoid going Paragon or Renegade lose key dialogue options which can be crucial to resolving conflicts without having to get into a fight, as your KarmaMeter directly determines what Charm or Intimidate options are available.
** Averted in the first game. Your KarmaMeter ''unlocks'' the full range of the Charm and Intimidate skills, but there you can max out the skills and then start a NewGamePlus to play as you want while keeping the rewards. The only real penalty for neutrality is being locked out of two alignment-based side missions (one for Paragons, one for Renegades).
** Even further averted in ''VideoGame/MassEffect3''. Paragon and Renegade now both add to the same bar, the Reputation bar, which can also be increased by getting non-alignment reputation points (which increase the size of the bar while maintaining the same Paragon to Renegade ratio).

** Played straight in the original trilogy when it comes to some of the bigger decisions, in that the third game for the most part rewards players who have played their characters consistently as a Paragon/Renegade. For example, curing the genophage will give good results if Paragon decisions were made and key characters are alive, while sabotaging the cure will only give profitable results if you made the right Renegade decisions in the past. Similarly, dealing with the Rachni Queen consistently is the only way to get a positive outcome; dealing with it inconsistently can result in less war assets or even negative results.

* Both played straight and {{inverted|Trope}} in ''[[VideoGame/EuropaUniversalis Europa Universalis IV]]''. Muslims get bonuses for being very pious or very impious, but not in between. On the other hand, Buddhists benefit from being in the middle of their (literal) KarmaMeter. Too low and their armies get penalized as everyone [[ZeroPercentApprovalRating refuses to fight for such a jerk]]. Too high and their [[StupidGood diplomacy suffers as everyone else takes advantage of them]].

** In story, Good Cole comes across as a bit of an AntiHero or The Everyman. In gameplay, you're locked into the one path except near the end of both games: a PoweredByAForsakenChild upgrade in 1, or the SadisticChoice in 2.

* ''VideoGame/{{inFamous}}'': If you're not a total saint or utter bastard, you're limited to the basic combat powers that you start with.
** In story, good!Cole comes across as a bit of an AntiHero or EverymanHero. In gameplay, you're locked into the one path except near the end of both games: a PoweredByAForsakenChild upgrade in 1, or the SadisticChoice in 2.

* Yahtzee regularly discusses this in ''WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation''. His main gripes are that it feels like he's being forced to play the game twice, and that the two sides are often mutually exclusive. Plus, the fact that instead of the player wondering about the moral implications of each choice given, there's only the choice between "Take the good/evil option since I took the good/evil option during the previous choice" or "Suck". In his opinion, such games might as well ask you once if you want to do a good or evil playthrough at the start of the game and be done with it. He even calls out games he otherwise likes on this, such as ''[=inFAMOUS=]'' and its sequel.

** Also played with in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''. As is the norm for the series, the neutral ending is the best possible ending, but the decision tree that immediately precedes the alignment lock has such a massive effect on the karma meter that a character with a perfectly balanced meter entering the choice is actually locked out of Neutrality and would wind up on whichever path corresponds to their last choice. Only by leaning ''slightly'' to one side and then picking the opposite side at the last moment can one reach the Neutral path.[[note]]This isn't as hard as it sounds, as between [[PointOfNoReturn the last possible save point]] and the alignment lock question is a second, smaller choice. The points line up such that while you can be committed to Law or Chaos, you can't save in a position where you miss the Neitral route for being too neutral. Good luck figuring that out on your own.[[/note]]

** Also played with in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''. As is the norm for the series, the neutral ending is the best possible ending, but the decision tree that immediately precedes the alignment lock has such a massive effect on the karma meter that a character with a perfectly balanced meter entering the choice is actually locked out of Neutrality and would wind up on whichever path corresponds to their last choice. Only by leaning ''slightly'' to one side and then picking the opposite side at the last moment can one reach the Neutral path.

* In ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'', the only "points" for neutrality are [[ModularEpilogue changing the text epilogues explaining the fate of the Underground]]. Story and gameplay only has major changes if you dedicate yourself to a PacifistRun or to being an OmnicidalManiac.
* Played with in ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines''. The Independent path where you refuse to pick any factions starts out this way, but [[EarnYourHappyEnding eventually leads into arguably the best, happiest, most conclusive ending in the game]]. This gets lampshaded and [[DiscussedTrope discussed]] when you meet [[HeroOfAnotherStory Beckett]]; if you're neutral, he praises you for it, saying that you've chosen a difficult but noble and rewarding path. The Cab Driver/[[spoiler:[[GodWasMyCopilot Caine]]]] similarly applauds you for thinking for yourself instead of blindly accepting the dogma of the various factions.

* ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'':
** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout|1}}'''s one-dimensional meter (positive is good, negative is bad) means that if you're neutral, no matter how much you've done, people will act like they've never heard of you.
** Unintentionally averted in ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'', where the karma meter has such a minuscule effect on game play that the player can pretty much do as he pleases with little penalty. There's one perk called "[[{{Mediator}} Impartial Mediator]]" which gives you a substantial Speech bonus as long as you retain neutral karma, presumably reflecting that most such players are fond of the "[[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath make everyone talk through their problems]]" solution, but it's not much compared to the bonuses of going to one extreme or the other. Two companions, Butch and RL-3, can only be recruited if you have neutral karma. Quest paths and rewards do often go by the good vs. evil choices, which is a shame, although there's often an option to [[OnlyInItForTheMoney take a slight reduction in good karma in return for taking a material reward.]]
** In ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'', the karma meter has virtually no effect on any part of the game until the ending, as [[AllianceMeter your reputation with various factions]] is far more important. Morality is essentially replaced by ideology, and the way that the whole system is set up makes it impossible to take a neutral stance. The Courier's good and bad deeds towards each faction are tracked separately, so doing equal parts good and ill to a faction won't balance out to neutral, but to "unpredictable loon", and the Courer will be treated as such. By the end of the game, whatever you have done up to that point has been done for the sake of a cause.

** Averted in the first game. Your KarmaMeter ''unlocks'' the full range of the Charm and Intimidate skills, but there you can max out the skills and then start a NewGamePlus to play as you want while keeping the rewards.

* {{Inverted}} with Harmony from ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheForsaken'', since as with ''Siren'' above a major theme of the work is the way werewolves are pulled between the Physical and the Cognitive. The closer a werewolf's Harmony is to 5 (perfectly balanced between the two Realms), the fewer things trigger his UnstoppableRage and the longer he can spend in the TranquilFury stage of that rage (where he still retains some self-control and can put himself in a position where he can't hurt anyone once he goes fully berserk).

* {{Inverted}} with Harmony from ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheForsaken'', since as with ''Siren'' above a major theme of the work is the way werewolves are pulled between the Physical and the Cognitive. The closer a werewolf's Harmony is to 5 (perfectly balanced between the two Realms), the fewer things trigger his UnstoppableRage and the longer he can spend in the TranquilFury stage of that rage (where he still retains some self-control and can put himself in a position where he can't hurt anyone once he goes fully berserk).