Discussion VideoGame / FinalFantasyXIV

As I said in that thread, hard splitting that page seems like a better move to me.

Did the split.

Is there any chance splitting game mechanics and story tropes like in some other pages?

And what would your suggestion be? Personally I would recommend the ending lyrics in Answers. It'd keep the feel but have a little more optimism.

Uh yeah. Alphabetic foldering plz.

You'll need to provide more details there. Otherwise, we can't really tell.

The main difference seems to be that those who speak in Antiquated Linguistics don't know proper spelling. It might help to look at the text.

You are bound to meet people who don't know the dungeon you are doing every once in a while. If they are asking for the strat' of the bosses and if you don't explain it to them, you're the one at fault here. If you do but they don't listen to you, then obviously they're the ones at fault. If you are using the Duty Roulette, you have no choice but to accept that, sometimes, you will stumble on some bad players. Otherwise, create your own party with people you know, problem solved.

Now, is the punishment system injust or disproportionate? Maybe. You still have the option to vote-kick a member who is afk or rude, but even that feature can be abused in the bad way (there were some cases in the Crystal Tower where one member got kicked just so an other could get the item which just dropped).

The real question is: do we have a new thing to list under the Scrappy Mechanic trope?

The issue is whether or not you use the roulette system, if you're not picked as a party leader, you can't vote people out sadly. Me or someone else tend to explain on what to do, but most of the time no one listens. It's just super annoying since it stalls my ability to grind for mythology tomes and this punishment system even follows you into pre made parties; I had quit a group that weren't pulling their weight and were blaming my friend and I for the failures. Because I quit first, my friend couldn't take me to another duty because of said punishment.

And I am not sure if it's totally scrappy mechanic because people would just suggest to "play with friends only".

I'm pretty sure its existence keeps a lot of trolling down. i.e. tanks that join parties, pull everything then leave, or people leaving cause they got the one drop they cared about. These things obviously still happen but they would happen more if there were no penalty. As for bad parties, it adds incentive to try diplomacy first. Eating the 30-min timeout tends to be a mater of "this sucks enough that's I'd rather take the penalty than spend another minute in here."

I think that could work out, with some fine tuning of course.

I can't say for certain, but I noticed that the English lip flapping still has some cases of the mouths still going a second after the speaker has finished talking.

I'll give it another listen sometime soon, but it might be worth rewording it as less of a localization problem and more an animation team thing.

I'm not seeing what the issue is, here. Care to explain?

Never mind. It's gone now. Also, I put up a character sheet on FF 14.

Perhaps it would be best just to use Hidden Elf Village or one of the other nearish tropes, and then qualify it as best possible?

... Or make a new trope >.> God knows what it'd be though..

I do agree with you there, but the fact is any trope mentioning that would probably count as a YMMV trope under the new regime, so there's not much to be done about it. Besides, trope pages aren't generally supposed to be almost exclusively discussing the quality of a work, but rather its contents. Even now with its "friendliness", the fact that the scores and fan response are mentioned so often is unusual.

Lastly, it's the law of Wiki Magic. ChibiKibou is by far the most active editor on this page and he has a more positive view on it than most, so his viewpoint is the one that gets to stay most often. Just like the Fate Stay Night page is very Sakura friendly because a Sakura fan refuses to allow any (accurate) "negative" tropes about her and I just got tired of dealing with him, this is just how it works. Not to disrespect Kibou, of course, but the state of the page is largely due to him so he will probably need to be convinced.

Blah, notoriety, huh? x.x

Well, while it's true I love Final Fantasy XIV to bits, I've done my level best to be fair here - for instance, annotating or explaining my edits, mentioning the 'MMO in the main series' argument, and asking Aya Reiko for references to controversial entries rather than just deleting them - which she was good enough to provide. And this time.. I'm sorry but I'm leaving that entry (which I didn't write, I'll note) well enough alone, and I apologise to Don Zabu for any possible offence, but the simple phrase 'This page seems to like the game way more than the game deserves to be liked' already makes it pretty clear that they also have an opinion they'd rather be the dominant one here. And being as it seems to be a negative one, I'll bet they haven't much inclination to be involved in the mass of improvements and changes presently going on under the new team leads, either. Besides, to be perfectly frank, while I'm sure it does read like someone who enjoyed the game wrote it, it's still pretty fair in general, given it uses terms like 'faint promise' when talking about optimists, points out the issues with claiming the game is in an ideal state, and cites the concerns around continued repair. To reference OJ, too, at least the negative response is actually cited, and repeatedly at that; everyone here has been very careful to make sure nobody feels that's being censored out. Hell, it even makes brief reference to the issues in the page description, which I'm pretty sure is actually bad form.

These pages, as OJ sort of said and all, are not here for claiming whether or not something is good, and in an ideal world they'd just be an even-handed discussion of the contents by people interested in the work in question. Unfortunately some people dislike and some like, and nobody can keep that from creeping into their entries, assuming they even want to. If you feel able to make an objective entry for a very, very controversial subject (this is a game that is still very active and fun for many, please remember, this regular player included), then please, go ahead and try, but don't be shocked if I or anyone else feels that your objective is their unfair, and either reverts the change or replaces it in turn. If you do, please transfer it to the YMMV page as well. That's something I don't feel comfortable doing, especially as one of the game's proponents. Aside from not knowing how best to do it, it'd be easy enough to read it as a 'defender' trying to sweep important issues out of sight.

However, right now I recommend doing nothing that doesn't involve simply noting tropes contained in the work itself. Final Fantasy XIV's in the midst of a massive redevelopment, and setting aside the fact that content is already being changed and problems solved, it's still unclear the direction it's going to go and the game is subscription-free until the issues are resolved. As such, and given we've already thrashed out the 'released too early' argument, I'd say it should be regarded as being back in beta again and treated with all reservation of judgment the in-development beta-phase warrants. The page will likely be in need of a huge rework, too, once the approved/fixed/confirmed version for the PS 3 is released.

Better a positive slant to an attempt at being objective than a vitriolic/bash-happy one, I say, and this page has seen its fair share of that and all.

Oh, Lilith Aensland made the YMMV move - thanks!

Let's see... base service fee is £6.89 for 30 days, £18.87 for 90 days, or £33.54 for 180 days. Atop that, each character costs £2.10 per month, ala Final Fantasy XI's payment system. So, if we're going by the monthly rates, that's a basic payment of £8.99 per month (less if you pay for more than a month at a go, obviously).

You can also pay with Crysta, Square-Enix's online currency, but the value of that's apparently 1 Crysta = £0.01.

Sorry, 'only have access to the prices in pounds, but it looks like they're the same value's worth of dollars so.. yeah.

The long and short of it's basically, FFXIV's slightly cheaper than the average MMO for one character, slightly more expensive for two.. and then, well, yeah, incrementally more expensive thereafter.

Here, reference: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/envi/envi04.html

Thanks, the USD fee is $9.99 a month. Not bad for MMO's that usually cost $15-$20 a month.

Of course right now, it's in an extended trial, so nobody's paid anything yet and in theory won't have to until sometime around December 20th (different for free-trial-from-box users after the 20th of November, obviously).

Just for the sake of not mis-informing, FFXIV is currently on indefinite free trial, with subscription start to be announced when it's felt the game is at a level the developers feel is more acceptable.

I agree, though 'Obvious fanboyism at its worst' and 'Rumour turned out to be true' are complete rubbish and leave me to question the knowledge of the editor in question. The entry may have been mildly and likely unwittingly fanboy-ish in tone, but all the same, was not nearly as bad as the editor calling it out claimed and highlighted unusual and noteworthy responses to the game compared to the more common controversy.

As such, to AyaReiko, quoting the edit warning, rudeness is not cool, and it's rude to sling overblown insults at someone trying to represent something worth noting but delicate.

Though, OJ, that 'Poor Communication Kills' (the game) part still feels.. a bit strong. I'm going to try one more re-write, sorry.

Concerning the edit:

Removed ', although even after understanding it one may understandably dislike it regardless' as this has been said in other places, and even there felt self-defensive and a deliberate move to forestall further squabbling. This way's more concise, and hopefully the other entries, being further up the page, will do the job.

Also reworded the final section, in an attempt to deal with the somewhat Take That!-ish feel (however unintended) of the phrasing as it was while still referring to the developer's odd lack of explanation.

Feel free to edit as necessary.

I will try adding an addendum to Fan Dumb to address people's willingness to believe what Sankaku Complex says about it when just a slight amount of examination will reveal most of its FF related entries to be completely full of shit. Edit it as you see fit or take it out as appropriate.

Actually, I've tried to. Hopefully this version makes the system and the controversy clear without seeming too biased either direction. I've tried to be as inoffensive as possible; it wasn't my intent to deride, 'promise.

Also, is the hottip I wrote explaining system specifics still necessary? I didn't feel wholly comfortable leaving it in, but it gets into more explicit detail about how the system actually works than the video, so...

Oh, yeah, and this new layout allows for additional entries without increasing wall-of-text issue.

... And I still ended up making too many edits despite preview-ing. Oh well, happy with the bloody thing now. Sorry again..

Dammit all, I forgot to mention the communication failures and such on SE's part adding to the controversy.. oh well, it's mentioned under broken-base anyway, which is probably the better place for it (at least there, it's much less in the realms of natter).

In fact, wouldn't it be better to move the whole of the 'Needless to say, this system has proven extremely controversial...' bit down to the Broken Base entry, and expand that part?

... Though I have to say, it is so tempting to just replace everything with the video-explanation link and put 'Watch this and save us all a lot of time and angst'.

It may be better to leave it where it is and redirect readers of Broken Base up to it, as I think if you move it someone else will add something a lot less balanced to that area under the impression that we're ignoring the rather large firestorm the system has caused.

I also think I'll add a bit more about the physical level. As explained before the edit, the physical level is your actual level, so it's more akin to having a level 1 character in Final Fantasy Tactics with max level jobs: very versatile but weak. Using standard final fantasy terms, that means there IS a limit to your experience points, but not to your AP.

Alright, that sounds good - though it might be best to modify the two paragraphs under the Fatigue System sub-entry, rather than add a third, if you do so. Good point on the Broken Base bit and all.

Oh, right,can you change the Aether Points subtitle to Anima, while you're at it? I screwed up and used the wrong term, but I'm loathe to make yet another edit.

Ahh sorry i didn't see the update to this while I was typing, if you want to edit anything I just added while doing that that's cool. That fatigue system thing is a bit bloated, but I'm not sure how else to concisely explain it.

Well, at least now it's a little more concise, and neat, than it was.

Also your additions seem fine for my reading, I'm just going to change one small thing in the Fatigue System detailed explanation (I was reading a recently posted FAQ, which said switched out disciplines' timers reverse while training others, rather than completely locking for the rest of the week once their experience gain caps out as the hottip currently suggests).

Just as note, there's some damn RMT website managing to advertise through this page -.- HATE.

I mean, seriously, I know it's just Google Ads, but given the website advertising is specific to Final Fantasy XIV on an FF XIV-related page like this one, does TV Tropes have no way to avoid coming off as somehow supporting this sort of thing?

Unfortunately, if what I remember from ffxiclopedia's own issues with RMT ads is any indication, it's quite hard to exclude all occurrences of RMT ads, not to mention hard to convince an admin staff that isn't actively involved in the MMO community to stop a potential revenue stream for something they don't really care one way or the other about. Still, you never know.