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Ether101Prime
topic
03:18:50 PM Aug 7th 2010
Nietzsche isn't a nihilist maybe this should be renamed.
zarpaulus
03:38:56 PM Aug 7th 2010
Most people haven't read his works as carefully as you and I and so there are a lot of popular misconceptions about him. And it's called "Nietzsche Wannabe", as in failing to meet his standards. The characters listed here think they're Ubermensch but are actually the Last Man.
gadret
04:24:51 AM Oct 26th 2010
Apparently this issue has been dealt with by now calling Arthur Schopenhauer a nihilist. Where did that come from? If Schopenhauer's a nihilist, so is every follower of hinduism, buddhism or any other conviction that, like Schopenhauer's philosophy, has its roots in Vedic texts. I am aware of the fact that many people's definition of a nihilist is: not a christian, but blindly adhering to that conviction makes this article look stupid.
208.76.75.5
04:02:52 PM Oct 29th 2010
yeah I agree, Nietzsche is one of those unlucky philosophers (see Machiavelli also) whose works have been inaccurately co-opted by less than desirable historical figures (see Hitler), as well as people who havn't read his works, or lack any form of judgement. Nihlism is the farthest thing from what he espoused, rather it was about embracing life, but yeah the trope is what it is, but a short note on the fact would help dispell misconceptions
Ekuran
10:12:01 AM Dec 31st 2010
Why does this ideology have to be tied up to one philosopher? A lot of people use this view in their stories without even knowing of Nietzsche or be influenced by the 'wannabes'.
Goremand
07:03:15 AM Feb 12th 2011
It should definitely be renamed. The tropes itself admits the title is misleading. I opt for changing it to "The Nihilist". It's short, sweet and meshes well with associated tropes "The Philosopher" and "The Fatalist".
TheMalignancy
12:20:37 PM Feb 15th 2011
Another reason to change it is that the "Wannabe" bit has overbearingly negative connotations.
Jerrik
01:03:39 PM Feb 15th 2011
So?
zarpaulus
07:46:27 PM Feb 15th 2011
edited by zarpaulus
It's supposed to be negative.

Please don't ruin another unique trope title.
Goremand
04:59:16 PM May 11th 2011
It's just irking to read sentences like "Villain X (link: Nietzsche Wannabe) wants to destroy the world because he thinks life is meaningless", because it wasn't like Nietzsche wanted to destroy the world, right?

This trope is being used to describe a wide variety nihilistic characters, most of whom are miles away from the complicated philosophy of Nietzsche. Personally I loathe these kind inaccurate titles, and wish the community tried harder to eliminate them.

I people want "creative" names then they go ahead think of something. I just think actually describing the trope should be the main goal.
TheScriptDoctor
02:59:57 AM Jul 12th 2011
Chipping in to agree with Goremand, above. "Nietzsche Wannabe" is horribly misleading and doesn't begin to accurately describe this trope. If we must have a "unique" title, "You Fail Nietzsche Forever" would be more appropriate... but I'd rather disassociate it from a particular individual entirely.

memememememe
06:34:16 AM Aug 4th 2011
Agreed, rename. The influx of Nietzsche's philosophy on a character trope pretty much killed that trope. Take the Ubermensch, for instance, which because of lack of notability, provided a sense of "This Is My Interpetation" among the Faux Nietzscheans (perhaps a suggestion for an alternate title) in this site.
Madcapunlimited
09:15:59 AM Oct 21st 2011
I'm with these guys- rename this trope.
nrjxll
topic
01:41:47 AM Jan 6th 2011
edited by nrjxll
The Deconstruction and Reconstruction examples for Playing With A Trope are simply wrong:

Deconstructed: Heroes consider Hermann to be wrong - but things turn for the worse. Emperor Evulz takes one country after the other. Most people care for nobody but themselves, good guys die left and right, and Hermann's seemingly baseless nihilism now looks perfectly appropriate and justified.

Reconstructed: Only the world is not half-empty after all. One Crowning Moment Of Heartwarming follows after another, Emperor Evulz is stopped and killed only thanks to The Power Of Friendship. Hermann is proven wrong after all - you just have to Earn Your Happy Ending.

Deconstruction does not mean DarkerAndEdgier! Reconstruction does not mean LighterAndSofter! In this case, a deconstruction might actually be more optimistic - showing how these characters are often just pathetic, petty losers who don't really have anything to do with Nietzsche in the first place.

Unless someone has a good reason why these make sense, I'm deleting them and putting in actual deconstructions and reconstructions of the trope.

memememememe
06:37:18 AM Aug 4th 2011
edited by memememememe
.
memememememe
06:37:23 AM Aug 4th 2011
It's taken care of already. An easy way to deconstruct Nietzsche Wannabe is that a villain being a Nietzsche Wannabe simply shows how pathetic he really is, just like the Deconstruction for Freudian Excuse.
Antichristian
10:50:54 PM Dec 14th 2011
This article needs to plainly state that Nietzsche is the opposite of a nihilist.
Ekuran
topic
03:30:38 PM Jan 13th 2011
Why is a Nietzsche Wannabe considered a wannabe? Yes, I know it's skewered version of Nietzsche's philosophy, but most writers probably haven't even heard of him and use this character type anyway. Can we consider this a philosophy in and of itself?
zarpaulus
08:22:20 PM Jan 13th 2011
There are some who go so far as to have their characters (mis)quote Nietzsche.
Ekuran
07:48:06 PM Feb 26th 2011
edited by Ekuran
Then those people (Cough*Writers*Cough) are retarded.
AbraSliver
11:07:01 PM Oct 22nd 2011
edited by AbraSliver
I agree that those people are retarded. However there are two things:
  • The "Nietzsche Wannabe" is not a coherent philosophy. It is given philosophical standing among the common people, but is in fact a misunderstanding or Did Not Do The Research of a philosophy. The retardedness/misunderstanding is what defines this trope.
  • Practically every (modern) instance of the trope, especially those who have not heard of Nietzche, have their foundation of this trope within what they heard.

The first is kind of self-explanatory. The second is not so I shall elaborate: We have all heard sound-bites, and make judgments on them. Nietzsche is a source of sound-bites on nihilism, but the problem is that sound-bites attempt to be Beige Prose. For any deep philosopher or philosophy, this leaves out critical details. So when someone hears something such as "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" (from Conan the Barbarian, Daft Punk, and other such popular sources) or "God is Dead" (tell me honestly that you never heard it from some popular source), they don't tend to understand what Nietzsche meant or why he said, it if they even know that he said it in the first place.

If I compare to something more well-known, it's like an 'Emo wannabe': they may not know what an emo is, but they want to be (what they perceive) it (to be). Meanwhile, people will critique and complain about them as though the wannabes represent all emos.
Camacan
moderator
topic
08:05:49 PM Jul 23rd 2011
Examples need details. The following are X Just X. See How To Write An Example.

Anime and Manga

Comic Books

Camacan
moderator
topic
08:08:18 PM Jul 23rd 2011
The following is not an example. Otto doesn't frequently lecture people about the pointlessness of existence and he certainly isn't a philosopher.

Film

Camacan
moderator
topic
08:11:32 PM Jul 23rd 2011
The following needs more details — we don't have enough info to say if he is an example or not: is he a philosopher with a a nihilistic school of thought? Does he repeatedly lecture people about the meaningless of life?

  • Dwayne from Little Miss Sunshine, anyone?
    • Dwayne has a big honkin' Nietzsche poster on his wall, that we first see him doing pushups in front of. ("Mein Ubermenschter, I am not vorthy!")
      • Lampshaded too.
Jordan
08:13:35 PM Jul 23rd 2011
Haven't seen it, but I believe he's an extremely pessimistic emo teen, so I wouldn't rule out him thinking life is meaningless.
Camacan
moderator
topic
12:33:44 AM Aug 1st 2011
Examples need details.

TV

These examples need details too: music is often harder to encapsulate but we need some useful information about how the trope plays out. We don't list X Just X.

     Music  

  • Skinny Puppy on the Process album.
  • Nine Inch Nails's "Heresy" track
    • "Heresy" is just a straight up anti-religious rant. The Downward Spiral as a whole, though, is definitely this.
  • Marilyn Manson's Antichrist Superstar.
Camacan
moderator
topic
12:40:53 AM Aug 1st 2011
edited by Camacan
These appear not to be good examples: they are primarily about asserting a link between a specific real-life philosopher and crazies going on a killing spree. The trope isn't Nietzsche specifically and these guys aren't philosophers who preach the meaningless of existence to others over and over as their MO. (These entries were also strong natter-bait.)

  • Clarence Darrow's successful effort to save Leopold and Loeb from execution was essentially based on the premise that Nietzsche was evil and the casual murder they committed was due to following his philosophy.
  • The perp in a recent school shooting in Finland quoted Nietzsche as an influence, and was apparently "cleansing the lesser humans". The Columbine gunmen are also widely believed to have been like this. And perhaps the Virginia Tech shooter.

This one declares itself not to be an example:

  • Talking about "cleansing the lesser humans", it's obvious that Adolf Hitler and Those Wacky Nazis made it to the list. Partially, Nietzsche's Nazi sister is to blame for controlling Nietzsche's publishings that did not comply with her own views. While they didn't shout to the world on how they completely disregard life...

In any case, hung up on Nietzsche specifics again, and again it's not that.
memememememe
topic
01:53:40 AM Aug 16th 2011
Mark Twain in in there. Seriously.
AidanMclaren
topic
10:46:03 PM Aug 29th 2011
Why should this article be called "Nietzsche Wannabe" when most fictional nihilists we see do not quote or try to follow Nietzsche's philosophy? Thinking that everything is inherently meaningless and worthless isn't unique to Nietzsche by any means.
AbraSliver
11:23:35 PM Oct 22nd 2011
edited by AbraSliver
They derive their thoughts from what are adaptations, soundbites, second-hand knowledge, and such of Nietzschean thought.

That is the point of the "wannabe" component of the article title. To paraphrase a post I put previously: Emo wannabes are not 'philosophically' emos, but they are what practically everyone thinks of when they think of 'emos'. A similar thing occurs with Nietzschean philosophy.
AidanMclaren
03:25:44 PM Oct 23rd 2011
"They derive their thoughts from what are adaptations, soundbites, second-hand knowledge, and such of Nietzschean thought." As I said, not all of them do. That's a really ignorant generalisation. And as for your "emo" comments; have you considered growing up?
Morboxx
topic
04:56:02 PM Dec 9th 2011
Woo, first entry! Erm, sorry. I just wanted to make known that this might be a fitting picture for this trope: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2394 Not perfectly fitting, I know, but as a plus it gets across the problem quite well...
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