Discussion Main / NietzscheWannabe

It was fixed by admin fiat.

Apparently this is one of the worst Natter targets on the wiki — Nietzscheans and Nietzsche Wannabes just couldn't stop editing it.

Which bugs me, since I REALLY wanna remove the first Planescape example. The Bleak Cabal are practically Trope Codifiers for The Anti-Nihilist, and should be there and not here.

They derive their thoughts from what are adaptations, soundbites, second-hand knowledge, and such of Nietzschean thought.

That is the point of the "wannabe" component of the article title. To paraphrase a post I put previously: Emo wannabes are not 'philosophically' emos, but they are what practically everyone thinks of when they think of 'emos'. A similar thing occurs with Nietzschean philosophy.

"They derive their thoughts from what are adaptations, soundbites, second-hand knowledge, and such of Nietzschean thought." As I said, not all of them do. That's a really ignorant generalisation. And as for your "emo" comments; have you considered growing up?

If that's the case, maybe we should make a trope that doesn't have such a negative judgemental spin on it? Y'know, so we can maybe categorize nihilistic characters without implying their writers are know-nothing hacks or preachy emos? Just a thought.

Take that suggestion ot this thread.

Nihilism was around way before Friedrich Nietzsche had came around but he is well-known for it because he write many books about it and describe it with an upbeat message. many philosophers before Friedrich Nietzsche believed that nihilism should be avoided even Friedrich Nietzsche himself opposed nihilism. thus the article for anti-nihilism on this site was created for. he was probably the only one that say something like "it means nothing period" and give it a positive message. the reason he did that i think is because did not want someone reading his work and falling in a nihilistic despair. say that someone wannabe like someone is meaning that everything they do or believe in you tried to copy it but missed the important things and these people probably don't want there character to be like Friedrich Nietzsche. seeing as it only talks about nihilism. it really does not matter how you come to your believe in a philosophy as it what you believe. if you believe in a philosophy that you can tell that they make it up then you should read their works. for example you can believe in a god without reading a holy book. but if you want to believe in a god that has all ready been created you should read a holy book. if your coming from the perspective that they are trying to make people believe nihilism as a bad thing then i can understand you. as some of your examples have nihilist killing people just because it what they believe in it is plain silly in my opinion. i end this discussion with i article be rename and give a column where there are bad examples of nihilism. also don't just tell people to go to Wikipedia tell them to do a little more research too.

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It's taken care of already. An easy way to deconstruct Nietzsche Wannabe is that a villain being a Nietzsche Wannabe simply shows how pathetic he really is, just like the Deconstruction for Freudian Excuse.

This article needs to plainly state that Nietzsche is the opposite of a nihilist.

There are some who go so far as to have their characters (mis)quote Nietzsche.

Then those people (Cough*Writers*Cough) are retarded.

I agree that those people are retarded. However there are two things:

• The "Nietzsche Wannabe" is not a coherent philosophy. It is given philosophical standing among the common people, but is in fact a misunderstanding or Did Not Do The Research of a philosophy. The retardedness/misunderstanding is what defines this trope.
• Practically every (modern) instance of the trope, especially those who have not heard of Nietzche, have their foundation of this trope within what they heard.

The first is kind of self-explanatory. The second is not so I shall elaborate: We have all heard sound-bites, and make judgments on them. Nietzsche is a source of sound-bites on nihilism, but the problem is that sound-bites attempt to be Beige Prose. For any deep philosopher or philosophy, this leaves out critical details. So when someone hears something such as "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" (from Conan the Barbarian, Daft Punk, and other such popular sources) or "God is Dead" (tell me honestly that you never heard it from some popular source), they don't tend to understand what Nietzsche meant or why he said, it if they even know that he said it in the first place.

If I compare to something more well-known, it's like an 'Emo wannabe': they may not know what an emo is, but they want to be (what they perceive) it (to be). Meanwhile, people will critique and complain about them as though the wannabes represent all emos.

Most people haven't read his works as carefully as you and I and so there are a lot of popular misconceptions about him. And it's called "Nietzsche Wannabe", as in failing to meet his standards. The characters listed here think they're Ubermensch but are actually the Last Man.

Apparently this issue has been dealt with by now calling Arthur Schopenhauer a nihilist. Where did that come from? If Schopenhauer's a nihilist, so is every follower of hinduism, buddhism or any other conviction that, like Schopenhauer's philosophy, has its roots in Vedic texts. I am aware of the fact that many people's definition of a nihilist is: not a christian, but blindly adhering to that conviction makes this article look stupid.

yeah I agree, Nietzsche is one of those unlucky philosophers (see Machiavelli also) whose works have been inaccurately co-opted by less than desirable historical figures (see Hitler), as well as people who havn't read his works, or lack any form of judgement. Nihlism is the farthest thing from what he espoused, rather it was about embracing life, but yeah the trope is what it is, but a short note on the fact would help dispell misconceptions

Why does this ideology have to be tied up to one philosopher? A lot of people use this view in their stories without even knowing of Nietzsche or be influenced by the 'wannabes'.

It should definitely be renamed. The tropes itself admits the title is misleading. I opt for changing it to "The Nihilist". It's short, sweet and meshes well with associated tropes "The Philosopher" and "The Fatalist".

Another reason to change it is that the "Wannabe" bit has overbearingly negative connotations.

So?

It's supposed to be negative.

Please don't ruin another unique trope title.

It's just irking to read sentences like "Villain X (link: Nietzsche Wannabe) wants to destroy the world because he thinks life is meaningless", because it wasn't like Nietzsche wanted to destroy the world, right?

This trope is being used to describe a wide variety nihilistic characters, most of whom are miles away from the complicated philosophy of Nietzsche. Personally I loathe these kind inaccurate titles, and wish the community tried harder to eliminate them.

I people want "creative" names then they go ahead think of something. I just think actually describing the trope should be the main goal.

Chipping in to agree with Goremand, above. "Nietzsche Wannabe" is horribly misleading and doesn't begin to accurately describe this trope. If we must have a "unique" title, "You Fail Nietzsche Forever" would be more appropriate... but I'd rather disassociate it from a particular individual entirely.

Agreed, rename. The influx of Nietzsche's philosophy on a character trope pretty much killed that trope. Take the Übermensch, for instance, which because of lack of notability, provided a sense of "This Is My Interpetation" among the Faux Nietzscheans (perhaps a suggestion for an alternate title) in this site.

I'm with these guys- rename this trope.

Haven't seen it, but I believe he's an extremely pessimistic emo teen, so I wouldn't rule out him thinking life is meaningless.