I really don't see the need for a Drowned Men page when Aeron is the only drowned man of real note. It just seems like a pointless page and I think he should be added back to the House Greyjoy page.
Alright, we really need to delete some of these minor characters or move characters from non-ASOIAF books to a different character sheet. It should not take someone five minutes to navigate through this page to find a specific character. Just because a character has a name, does not mean they deserve their own folder. I'm sorry for all the people who added info for all these obscure characters but the pages are just way too crowded.
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I agree that there are some characters with entries that just do not belong due to lack of importance/tropes, but I feel that a lot more discussion is needed on the topic. I think the best choice would be to create a project page in either the Projects: Long Term/Perpetual
or Projects: Short Term forums. Anybody else have a suggestion?
I disagree with this change.
The main series, the Dunk and Egg stories and the Histories all have too many overlapping characters to be split.
It also goes against the prevailing trend in the site of putting all the characters of shared universes in one general page, as has been done with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Star Wars and DC Extended Universe
I urge that what has been implemented of this change be reversed immediately, before it goes any further.
Edited by AzureOwl
I agree with Azure. Or else, under the "separate sheet for Tales of Dunk and Egg" example, we should make a different character sheet for all characters introduced in The World of Ice and Fire and another one for Archmaester Gyldayn's histories.
Does anyone else feel like the character sheet is a bit too big? It's gotten to the point were Davos' six and three year old sons have their own folders. Perhaps we could cut down on some of the more peripheral characters?
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I don't think we need this many pages; the Northern houses in particular are quite short for houses necessitating their own pages. I vote for merge, giving only the great houses their own pages.
Bolton and Manderly need their own pages, Mormont maybe does, not so sure about Umber and Karstark. The problem with merging those pages back into the main Northern houses page is how big it would make it. It can get difficult to edit when having to scroll through a huge list.
I'd say keep Bolton and Manderly, merge the rest. Mormont in particular since the two most prominent characters of the family aren't technically allied with their own house at this point.
I haven't finished reading the books yet so I can't speak for which houses are and aren't important, but what if you merged some of the less important houses (as you said, Umber, Karstark and Mormont) into their own page, so you would have, say, the minor Northern Houses, House Stark, House Bolton, House Manderly and then a page for Umber, Karstark and Mormont?
We're starting to lose characters here. The footnotes for 'Independant Characters' still lists Ser Duncan the Tall (as a hedge knight with Bronn) but he's not there. And I'm damned if I can find Brienne anywhere. This is getting out of hand.
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Brienne is on the Stormlands House page under Houst Tarth. She is listed on the footnotes for that page. But yeah, the number of minor or unseen characters included is crazy and could be cut down and the footnotes need to be updated.
Randyll Tarly isn't covered anywhere in this directory. He's a bannerman to Mace Tyrell, so should House Tarly be added in underneath that heading, along with Bolton, Manderly, Frey and the rest?
ZAFT Redcoat
Ravenous Sophovore
This page is approaching the "so big it breaks the wiki" mark. I'm going to split it by house. Does anyone have an opinion on where the misc character tropes should go?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up. Hide / Show Replies
Good idea. By the way, there's like separate character entries for Mance and Tormund, and they should probably go under the entry for the Wildings as a whole. I wasn't sure how to make that change.
Hmm, not sure about those miscellaneous character tropes. I'd personally probably enter them on the main page i.e.
- Lovable Coward:
- example a
- example b...
Oops, missed this. Guess I watchlisted the page before the whole discussion page getting dropped bug happened. Sorry.
I'll see about moving Mance and Tormund over to Outsiders.
The main page may need to be broken up alphabetically soon, like Order Of The Stick was.
Edited by ccoa Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
No prob. Thanks for the reply and thanks for undertaking this split.
Hodor
No problem. Moved them back to the main page. It's over 400k characters, too, so I'm going to split it alphabetically.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Does Hot Pie have an entry here somewhere? I don't see him.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Sharknado Warning
WTF is the point of characters with asterisks next to their names? If it's supposed to mean something, why is said meaning not written anywhere?
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It appears they mark which are the POV characters, though for some reason, most of the Stark household and Arianne do not have asterisks.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
So next questions then, do we remove them, add the missing ones (Don't know who those are myself). And if we keep them, where do we put an entry to explain what the asterisks are.
Well, I marked the ones I know and put a note on the main page, but these pages are really messy.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Ravenous Sophovore
Question: Should we add pictures of the actors from the series to the character sheet as they become available?
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I'd say that we should hold off on it, at least for now.
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
There's some very good pics all done in a matching art style to serve as personal portrais on A Wiki of Ice and Fire. We could use those for the characters, but since the TV series has its own character sheet we leave the actors for that.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
As I suggested before, I think we should use Amok's art, as is used on the A Wiki Of Ice And Fire pages.
Under Tywin Lannister, Abusive parent. "Another notable incident was when Tywin forced Tyrion to clean every latrine in Casterly Rock on his birthday. "
Wait... what? Don't remember this part. Removing it until someone gives the source of where in the books this happened.
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Maybe it's a confusion with the job Tywin gave him - he charged Tyrion with the drains and cisterns. (ADWD, 118) Then again, maybe not.
It's mentioned several times on here that Joffrey raped and sexually abused Tommen. As far as I can see, there's no evidence to support this. At most, Tommen starts to say that Joffrey did something to him but he gets cut off before he says what. we never find out for sure if it is something sexual or not but many times its stated on here as though its confirmed fact rather than theory.
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Agreed, under Joffrey's character sheet it even mentions he rapes his sister, but no where in the books does it mention or even hint at this.
Chalk it up to Fanon.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
I'm appalled at all the argument that Sansa is a bad person for not falling happily into Tyrion's arms. So now we're villainizing twelve year old girls for not submitting after they're held hostage and forced to marry an adult man (a deformed dwarf no less)??? Criticize the girl for other reasons if you must. But criticizing her for this just makes our whole fandom look stupid and misogynist.
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While I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's not right to criticise Sansa for this, I think there needs to be SOME kind of acknowledgement of their relationship dynamics. Tyrion goes above and beyond the call of duty to be good to Sansa, to practically dangerous lengths, resulting in him receiving a lot of scorn and mockery for not taking her virginity, even after his father pointed out that he stands to gain a lot of potential power and prestige if he fathers a child on her. He admits himself that he's attracted to her. But for all he does for her, she never gives him a single concession even when it was obvious to her that she was hurting him, apart from the occasional admission that he was "kind". While we certainly can't "villainise" her for this, there should be some kind of trope we can use to acknowledge it. I'm just not sure which one.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Would it be appropriate to trope Stannis as a Hypocrite? After all, for a Principles Zealot who places Honor Before Reason he sure is willing to do whatever it takes to become king, most notably consorting with a witch-priestess of a foreign religion to have his opponents assasinated with dark magic. Even if you believe that he doesn't know about that, there's still the letting her get away with Human Sacrifice in the name of his victory.
Always expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Azor Ahai
I made some changes to the following characterzation of "Young Griff":
Besides being childishly spiteful and petulant when interacting with people who have no apparent power over him, like Tyrion, believes that Dany will be perfectly willing to marry him and lend her dragons to his cause. Tyrion, the experienced and witty man that he is, points out all the problems with this belief, while at the same time counselling Aegon to trust no one. Especially not Tyrion. Aegon utterly fails to take this advice to heart and falls for Tyrion's manipulations, deciding to head to Westeros instead.
The above is a bit too much of a Ron the Death Eater type characterization. Yes, the character does have an unpleasant side, but he's not (at least not yet) as totally unsympathetic as that description paints him.
For one thing, while there is some truth to the idea that Tyrion is nasty to people who don't have power over him, I don't really see the evidence of it with Young Griff- he does lose his temper at Tyrion, but as the description itself notes, he ends up taking his advice to heart; and more generally, he seems nice and polite to his tutors and guards.
Edited by Jordan Hodor
Azor Ahai
I deleted the following about Rhaegar as part of Posthumous Character:
Part of Martin's genius is that in the first book we only hear about Rhaegar from Robert, who paints him as some sort of black knight who stole his beloved. We soon begin to realise from others later on that this opinion seems to be only held by Robert, who had some sort of unrequited love Lyanna and that Rhaegar and her were truly taken with each other, and that Rhaegar was actually a fine man. It leaves one wondering if Westeros would have been better off with Robert's rebellion being crushed.
It seems like natter/off topic, and while it does seem more likely to be true than Roberts take on events, it isn't confirmed yet that R and L were really some great love story. It would be in-character for Martin to first subvert the nasty portrayal of Rhaegar, but then go on to subvert the overly idealized one as well.
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Yeh Sorry, was a bit natterful on my part. Apologies
Natter is not fun
Student of Story
So, is anyone else in favor of turning the various House sections and what not into folders? This page has gotten extremely long and will be getting longer sooner, and having folder controls would make getting around on it a lot easier in my opinion.
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ | Hide / Show Replies
I was trying to do it, but was running into some formatting issues (I couldn't get some sections to go into a folder even though I used the same formatting). I'm at school right now, working from a 13 inch laptop screen that hurts my eyes, so maybe when I get to my bigger home computer I'll have another shot at it.
I went ahead and did it; everything looks all right to my eyes. If there's a problem, let me know.
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Needs Help
, started by Jordan on Mar 12th 2012 at 2:31:54 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman