Yet another rec thread: Intelligent anime

That one definitely has plot complexity in spades.

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

I couldn't get into it. It was dragging even in the first episode.

@OP: You want tightly-written? Try Glass Mask. It may be shoujo, but it feels so shounen that if you ignore the hetero romance portions (and all sane viewers do) you might not even notice the difference. Just don't stress out too much about Maya havin' it rough for the first ten episodes or so; things will get better for her, I promise. And then worse again, 'cause this is shoujo, but ne t'enquiète pas.

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!

Just finished watching SAC, including SSS, and well… It is utterly incredible. The plots are airtight, very complex, and utterly captivating; the characters feel realistic (even those that verge on the superhuman, like The Major, from the way such a person is portrayed,) are well distributed around the cast, and are just plain awesome; the dialog is good too (if occasionally a tad pretentious, but never actually meaningless or stupid,) with a mix of skillful exposition and character, even some humor! I simply can't say enough good things about this show.

The only intellectual criticism I have is that the setting's cyborg technology is utterly ridiculous (it's socially acceptable for people to chop off healthy body parts for cyborg-ization? Technology to remote-control a fetishistically accurate looking yet superhuman reproduction of the entire body is available, and yet “naturals” don't use compact power armor? A hack-able interface that lets people control your mind and body is universally popular? Virtually every cyborg uses perfectly human looking parts instead of far more useful inhuman ones or temporary bodies on the job?), but if this one point is written off, the rest is rock solid in how it accounts for all the effects everything would have on the setting. I'm looking forward to Appleseed.

On watching it, I agree it expects a certain amount of effort from its audience to unravel (I was rooting for Yoshi, flashbacks of New Reno in mind ,) but what's there when it's unraveled… There isn't really any sort of message, just a flippant Humans Are Bastards (and so are post-humans!) nihilism. The way how everyone reacted to the grittiness was nice, one example I found particularly refreshing was robotic limbs and peoples' reactions to them being played as deeply unsettling. Also, once I realized there wasn't any out-and-out magic realism going on, things like a normal guy surviving double dismemberment without bleeding to death, without a tourniquet, became slightly annoying. It's sort of like Baccano!'s emo older brother, except it uses minimalism in place of the rather gimmicky Anachronic Order to add meatiness.

I think my earlier characterization as “DN minus the exaggeratedness that makes it fun” sadly was a bit too accurate. The characters act like morons, the plot is loaded with holes, the story is told in a insultingly repetitive fashion (made worse by the glacial pacing problems,) and the most interesting concepts (Johan's ability to crush a person's spirit purely through influence, a detailed meditation on redeeming humanity's flaws…) don't have enough writing to back them up. Also, there's the large amount of trashiness, which would've been forgivable if the story had something to say by putting it onscreen, but it doesn't.

Of course, what cheesed me off the most was that each arc, and the series as a whole, repeatedly wimped out whenever it came time to pay the piper and offer up some believable motives for prior events.

Yeah, I actually liked this one quite a bit. The science was mostly good, the plots were actually pretty good sitcom fare (and I normally HATE sitcoms,) and the characters were genuinely endearing. Even the later parts of the show were pretty good (sort of like an upper and downer ending all in one,) all that really annoyed me about it was the way how the characters were… A bit crazier than I think people would be allowed to get in those conditions (the silliest example that springs to mind for me was when Hachimaki became a hobo while enrolled in the world's most prestigious competition.)

Like I said in the OP, I'm not dead set on intelligent writing, I watch (and greatly enjoy) lots of stuff with ridiculous writing, it's just that I'd like a handful of things under my belt I can hold up and say “I respect this wholeheartedly” to myself after watching them. I haven't closed off my mind to the possibility of something new steamrolling my standards, but I'm not waiting with bated breath. I guess keeping an open mind is important though.

My main standard for “intelligent” is that when you break out the microscope and put a story under the knife, it's capable of withstanding that level of scrutiny and criticism instead of falling to pieces. Complexity means that a story comes out stronger after being examined so closely, but a simple story that's also intelligent at least shouldn't emerge worse for wear from such analysis.

It's quite possible to have a complex story that's still utter nonsense, like The Big O (which I loved.)

Eric,

edited 1st Jun '11 8:29:34 AM by EricDVH

I have only read some of the entries on the first page, so I apologize if any of these have been recommended yet.

[1] - The storyline will seem very simple at first, but that will change. Basically the whole thing is a big trippy, mindfuck. It is a series you will have to think about and not take a face value. I don't know that this would be the sort of "intelligent" you are looking for, but it is very well-worth checking out.

Gankutsuou - The Alexander Dumas classic Recycled In Space. Much better than it sounds.

edited 2nd Jun '11 11:44:26 AM by hishighnessofheretics

Repeating Legend Of The Galactic Heroes

Question: are we looking for "intelligent in its construction" or "requiring intelligence on the part of the viewer?" Because they're not mutually inclusive.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

As I said to Sparkysharps asking the same question, the former (internal consistency, things assumed to be consistent with the real world, especially psychology, being externally consistent, etc…). The latter is certainly welcome on top of that though.

Eric,

No one has suggested Last Exile yet. I'm resigned to the disappointment by now.

It easily meets the consistent worldbuilding (this coming from someone with particularly strict requirements for fantasy, in this regard) and accurate character psychology aspects, though. Maybe you'll enjoy it.

edited 21st Jun '11 5:28:15 PM by Noaqiyeum

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

Just to get it out of the way... someone mentioned Kino's Journey but I would disagree with that series because the degree of intelligence there is directly proportional to how much a viewer overthinks small details.

The problem is that all of the antagonists are ridiculously broken psyche-wise, to the point that it's easy for a viewer to get frustrated with what they actually do regardless of the reasons behind it.

edited 21st Jun '11 7:50:05 PM by Recon5

Another way of gagueing a series' intelligence is its themes and how it explores them.

I think I enjoyed it quite a bit. The characters were mostly pretty funny and self aware, though Nanami's Butt-Monkey-ness was overused a little. The What Do You Mean, It's Not Awesome? imagery and overall corn was… so overblown it went Beyond Death Note (that's a complement,) and the philosophical content was actually somewhat deep. The Movie sucked a ton, sadly.

The setting, though? The show's treatment and characters' psychological reaction to the setting is exactly the sort of loose writing I've been referring to: Why doesn't Utena ask (especially Himemiya, since she says she has to obey her wishes) more about what's going on and why? How did the student council get so powerful? Why didn't she contact the police (are there any?) What is the academy? How far does common historical/mythical knowledge go on this whole prince/witch/castle/revolution thing? This is made even sillier by the fact Utena actually asks questions along these lines a handful of times in the first episodes, then goes into full-on Elephant in the Living Room mode for the show's remainder. Basically, it's a fun series with some interesting philosophy, but you really have to shut most of your brain off when watching it.

Ah yes, I remember checking that out when it was being advertised, thinking “Hey, a steampunk anime, that might be interesting, and it's from Gonzo so it'll be pretty too!”. One story cliché was heaped atop another, but I figured I could take them in stride and enjoy the exotic setting if they weren't too heavy handed abou… Two armored ships flip open panels to expose people shooting airgun pellets at each other, pellets that can't hurt anything except the opposing people, from airguns that are attached via tube to the floor and thus can't be used for boarding actions, from ships too far apart to do boarding actions in the first place, which then close the panels and start exchanging cannon broadsides after they're done with the airgunner show, Take That! impractical Napoleonic infantry tactics!

I couldn't bear to finish the first episode.

Eric,

If we are talking about just that part of the first episode of Last Exile, the only two reasons for it (that I can think of right now) are to establish one recurring character's back story and the concept that wars are generally fought with certain rules that are called "chivalrous." I don't recall that situation ever being used again.

The rest of the episode is much more consistent and important. And you quickly figure out that the reason the flying ships can work with steam-punk tech is because the world they are on obviously does not follow the same rules as ours.

I know this will probably not get you to watch it (even if I am one who thinks it Needs More Love), but just thought you should know why there is a discrepancy between your reaction and other people's while both being accurate.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!

Hmm… Maybe I'll give it a second look, it's just that Medieval Morons, Historical Villain Upgrade, and similar blanket condemnations of the past (especially the past of other cultures than your own) is one of my pet peeves.

Also, at the time I'd just finished watching Gonzo's Tower Of Druaga, which took a very staid genre, parodied it mercilessly, and then successfully played it for drama anyways.

Eric,

If you're not adverse to manga, try out Vagabond for a philosophical bent. The character development is some of the best in all fiction.

Does anyone else here think Shangri-La qualifies, it's certainly relevant with that carbon economy story thread. Does anyone else here think it explores it well?

Sort of counts, but the Steins Gate visual novel. The anime is lacking in some parts, while the visual novel explains just about everything.

edited 16th Jan '13 4:53:13 PM by tvsgood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFmGNqji4u0

I don't think this one has been brought up yet, so I'll recommend Macross. (Not any of the sequels or spin-offs, at least until you've watched the first one.) The plot is fairly air-tight, but the story is also pretty intelligent and surprisingly powerful&moving. It's a Real Robot show, but the Mecha themselves aren't actually all that important to the story. Speaking of the story, I'd let the Trope Page here explain it for me, but there's not a proper story-summary to be found there, so I'll have to do.

In the year 1999, (the show was made in the early 80's,) humanity up to that point had been embroiled in a long series of battles and warfare, but in that same year, a giant spacecraft crashed onto Earth. From that spacecraft, humanity was able to amp up it's technologies, though the world was still divided, and filled with warfare. This resulted in the Unification Wars; eventually, the world was united as one, and by the year 2009, the giant spaceship had been fully rebuilt, and christened the Macross. Unfortunately, on the day of it's activation, a 'trap' is let loose; the ship fires an incredibly long-range laser-beam that shoots straight into space. It was designed as a signal to the race it belonged to, but that race has long since dissapeared. Instead, a ship from the Zentradi, a race of warlike giants, sees the beam, and for reasons of their own, (which I know are explained straight away, but unfortunately can't remember just now,) call more ships, and plan to invade Earth. However, things don't go as planned. Through a series of events, the Macross finds itself 'folded' (a fancy word for teleportation,) to Pluto, along with an entire city. The inhabitants of the city were all in underground shelters at the time, and so the crew of the Macross were able to eventually get them all onboard, but from there, it's a journey to get back to Earth while also escaping the wrath of the Zentradi. And that's just the first third of this 36-episode plot.

However, the heart of the story lies in 3 characters, and the relations between them; 1.Ichigo, a 15 year old pilot who, thanks to having an older, experienced American Fighter-pilot as a friend, (Folker,) starts the story rather cocky and carefree, 2.Minmay, a 15 year-old female waitress from Chinatown in Japan, who eventually becomes a famed idol singer, and 3.Misa, a Bridge Bunny in her early 20's. Each of the three (Misa least of all, but she's still rather important,) go through serious Character Development, but through that and their actions, bring about the story's core-themes, which I'll leave to you to discover for yourself. Personally, I thought it was a very well-done and mature series, and I highly recommend giving it a look. (If you like it, you can then check out the various side-stories and sequels, with Macross Frontier being one of the most notable ones. I thought it was good, but not at the level of the original, and it might not be up to your standards either.)

edited 17th Jan '13 5:37:30 PM by kkhohoho

Doctor Who — Long Way Around: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13536044/1/Doctor-Who-Long-Way-Around

Stupid as it may seem, I expect entertainment media to be educational as well so my favorites tend to be the sort which makes me not just think but also learn.

I also favor series which tries to be historically or scientifically accurate.

Lastly, I favor progressive series because coming across one is like finding a diamond in the rough.

My recs: Chihayafuru, Fullmetal Alchemist, Gin no Saji, Kuragehime, Mushishi, Natsume Yuujinchou, Otoyomegatari, Shingeki no Kyojin, Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun, Toriko, Vinland Saga, What Did You Eat Yesterday, Wolf and Spice

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

As much as I like many of these recommendations and think they are good anime, if we're being really critical, there are plot holes/Willing Suspension of Disbelief failure-inducing moments. For example, Kinos Journey, while thought-provoking, is for the most part made up of entirely unrealistic Planet of Hats "characters" who act only as plot points. Mushishi is kind of an anything-can-happen sort of show, but the only instance where I couldn't suspend my disbelief was the episode when that guy's dreams and nightmares came true.

Anything involving Timey-Wimey Ball mechanics is out of the question, since that just makes the entire continuity, everything that happened, squishy and pliable and easily retconnable.

It's been a while since I've watched it, but Cowboy Bebop should count. It's really fantastic at any rate.

The Card Captor Sakura manga has a really great, constantly thickening plot. It also has no real villain, but like many an anime, the "darker" characters were the more fleshed-out.

Fractale definitely has a fascinating concept, a really good execution, and a satisfying, unexpected conclusion.

Gotta wait for Shin Sekai Yori to conclude before saying anything, but it seems to be going this way; it's really building it's world.

I'm really glad you'd recommend Natsume Yuujinchou and Kuragehime, since I love both those things. Natsume Yuujinchou is actually my favorite anime, but it's more episodic fluff than anything, and doesn't have much real plot advancement. Kuragehime...well I don't have any objections to it, but I wouldn't have thought of it because it's so...realistic? It's definitely all about the characters.

edited 17th Jan '13 10:03:18 AM by Ruise

Loves feel-good animation a whole lot.

Planet ES - Story about group of Space Garbage collectors. No it's not joke. Authors realy Shown Their Work and this anime/manga revolve about realistic live of astronauts as well as as it's social issues of developing countries and human nature generaly. It's also fun btw.

Summer Wars - Kenji goes visit his with (not realy) girlfriend her family. And with their help he have to save a world against realy bad AI. It has simply plot, bunch of quirky characters and it's filled with Fridge Brilliance and irony. Yes it's very fun

Haibane Renmei - about afterlife, something like Angel Beats but It was long before and it's more philosophical. It's not so funny but it's one of very few intelectual stuff I actualy find to be smart. It was writen by creator of Serial Experiments Lain.

edited 17th Jan '13 11:19:57 AM by Tenzen12

Related to Lain, what about the plot isn't intelligent? Even the villain's objective, while pretty basic and common, was being acheived in an interesting point of view.

Btw, I would recommend Fang of the Sun Dougram for complex political drama. There's a movie special that condenses the plot but it's only the full length of the tv series that puts across the nuances.

edited 19th Jan '13 11:07:10 AM by luislucas

For now, I'm seconding whoever that mentioned Kino's Journey. It was so descriptive of what could actually happen.

The one part that really stood out for me was in episode 5: a country collapses on itself as it puts everything to a direct vote and eliminates the minority. I actually used that to help my friend in US history class, to explain the difference between pure direct democracy and representative democracy.