Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Indigo

I guess things changed or they made the movie anyway? I'm not sure.

Indigo.

@Indigo:

indigo, lord marmoo, mace and gar'an

roger

edited 16th Sep '16 5:47:05 PM by Mediawatcher

Indigo

indigo, lord marmoo, mace, gar'an, and roger

edited 16th Sep '16 6:10:24 PM by G-Editor

on Roger.

Also, I'm going to challenge a JoJo's Bizarre Adventure example:

• Terence (Telence) T. D'Arby/D'Arby the Younger is the courteous and formal butler of Dio Brando. After introducing himself to the heroes and trapping them in his basement, he reveals his true colors, proudly displaying his collection of 15 dolls, all people who he defeated in a game before taking their souls. Unlike his brother Daniel, he deliberately keeps them fully aware of their situation and powerless. He then defeats Kakyoin and adds him to the collection, intending to do the same to Jotaro and Joseph. He also gloats about an incident where he beat his brother Daniel to near-death after catching him flirting with his girlfriend.

Now, Terrence is a bad person yes, but 15 victims (16 if you count Kakyoin, and 15 if you count sympathetic people) trapped in And I Must Scream, and an assault are his only onscreen crimes. I feel he fails the heinous standard. Put aside Dio, who's resources and screen time put him ahead of everyone, and compare him to the other criminals:

• J Geil: Is a better example, IMO. He's a serial murderer and rapist. He brags about a brutal rape and murder of Polnarref's sister, nearly kills her friend, attempts to kill Avdol, near fatally attacks an innocent man, and tries to use a kid as a human shield for his stand.

• Gray Fly: Another serial killer who tears the tongues out of his victims, and has caused several plane crashes (taking all lives) whilst framing them as accidents. Avdol states that one plane was crashed into a city in England killing 300 people. Onscreen we see him fly his stand through three people's skulls ripping out their tongues to paint a threat with blood.

• Forever (the Monkey): Brutally kills over half a dozen innocent men with his ship, doing stuff like driving a hook into one's skull. That and he tried to rape a little girl.

• Hell, even Daniel D'Arby himself, whilst he keeps his victims dormant, he's claimed a lot more people's souls than his younger brother and keeps them trapped within his collection book for all time.

And there's also N'Doul, Pet Shop, and Devo, who each have quite violently killed harmless and innocent people, though their onscreen body counts are just 1-2.

So while the paralyzing situations that Terrence puts these people into make him notable, I don't think they give him CM status, especially with others like Gray Fly having such high body counts.

edited 16th Sep '16 6:26:07 PM by DrPsyche

Thank you. Yes, cut him...did not like him up to begin with

I've always been for cutting Terence D'Arby. Now's a good a time as any.

I'll give a "yes" to Indigo, who is hilariously played by Smallvilles version of Supergirl—and obviously owes a lot to their version of Brainiac.

Cut D'Arby.

Do Gray Fly and Forever count? I know nothing about Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure.

That kind of casting all sorts of funny.

Okay cut D'Arby

I've also never liked D'Arby being up.

I have an absolute keeper to propose this weekend, btw.

Where is he from?

Indigo, Marcoo and Mace

Definite to Roger. I've seen worse in Saturday Morning Cartoons.

Regarding D'Arby Terrance. I disagree. I haven't watched much of this show but putting fifteen+ people in And I Must Scream fate seems to be uniquely heinous for the show. Even if he might lack the body count a few others have. So my vote is still a on him.

Forever's a no. I only used him here to illustrate someone with a moderate body count to compare to Terrence.

Gray Fly... maybe.

Onscreen we see him kill 3 innocent people and write in their blood. He killed the plane's pilots, about 3-4 others, so the plane he fought the heroes on would crash. Though we don't see their deaths, the protagonists open the doors to the cockpit to find their bodies freshly dead.

The high as hell bodycounts from the plane crashes are impressively terrible, but they're only recounted in the backstory by Avdol (and the screen flashes screenshots to destroyed planes, one of which hit a building). So I think they can count.

He has no redeeming qualities. The heroes speculate he's only in it for the money, but he is fanatically devout to Dio to the point where after he's beaten and bloody and dying he still get's up to sing Dio's praises and boast that the heroes will fail. So I doubt that would disqualify him.

Hmmm... That seems like enough to establish a pattern.

Candyman.

@emperors Jojos Bizarre Adventure

I remembered how it’s possible for different interpretations (anime vs. manga, AU, etc.) to qualify as a CM even if the original isn’t. With that being said, my next effortpost has to do with a character from the Zatch Bell! anime.

What is the work?

Zatch Bell! is a series that focuses on one hundred demon children (mamono in the original Japanese, called "mamodo" in the English release) being sent to Earth to do battle with each other to find out who will be the next generation's King. They can only use their powers (spells) if and only if a certain human can read their spell book, making the tournament a team effort. If their book is burned, they're banished back to the demon world (or Mamodo World for English followers like myself) and are out of the contest.

Note: I will be using English phrases, names, or terminology hereafter.

Second Note: I will be discussing anime-only events unless indicated.

Third Note: Effortpost contains Late Arrival Spoilers.

Who is the candidate?

The candidate is the anime version of Zeno. Zeno is one of the 100 Mamodo and an overarching antagonist of the story; although, his biggest role isn’t until late into the Faudo arc. Zeno Bell looks exactly like Zatch Bell, the protagonist, save for his pastier colors, purple eyes, and sharper teeth, thus giving him a more aggressive look. His spells are the same as Zatch's, only more powerful and colored white; additionally, Zeno does not lose consciousness during the spells and thus knows what he is doing while they are being cast. Zeno’s partner is a teen/young man named Dufort. That resemblance to Zatch is intentional: he’s the older twin between them.

What he has done?

• His original crime: After finding his bookkeeper, he tracked down Zatch to a forest in England, where he was living peacefully. Without saying who he was, Zeno brutally attacked Zatch, both physically abusing him and using his own spells to make him suffer. But instead of burning his book, where he would instantly go home to his family and live peacefully in the mamodo world, he decided to remove his memories to force him to be stuck wandering around this strange world without any friends or any idea who he was.
• When Zatch and Kiyo, his partner, go to England, they are attacked by a Mamodo named Baltro. Zeno asked Baltro to capture Kiyo’s father for unknown purposes. When he inevitably fails, Zeno shows up to burn Baltro’s books for failing him.
• The next time we see him is when Zeno and Dufort fight Apollo and Rops, friends of Zatch and his partner Kiyo. The latter two mistaken Zeno for Zatch, which catches his attention. When Apollo explains they had a draw with Zatch and Kiyo, Zeno subsequently challenges them (he didn’t like the comparison to Zatch or seeing Apollo and Rops as carefree souls). One Curb-Stomp Battle afterwards, Zeno burns Rops’s book. Before the two have any chance at parting words, another Zaker is fired to ensure Rops’s book burns even faster.
• After a long absence, Zeno reappears in the Faudo arc, making his surprise entrance burning Zaruchimu’s book ^note  Zaruchimu is The Dragon to Leo, who until then was the driving force behind the Faudo arc . Now, he’s come to usurp the recently revived Faudo from Leo. To backtrack, Faudo is a giant demonic creature made by an unknown wizard in the mamodo world. But because of its destructive power, Faudo was sealed into a tower form and since then, guarded by a mamodo family. But during the current mamodo battle, Leo was entrusted with Faudo's control device by his father and created the Faudo Cult. A living WMD basically.
• Back on the subject, Zeno proceeds to beat the living snot out of Leo, taking extreme pleasure dishing out pain. At one point in the scuffle, Zeno attacks Zatch, Kiyo, and all of his allies (both human and Mamodo, male and female) to make sure they can’t interfere. Predictably, Leo loses and gets his book burned. Zeno takes control over Faudo and his declared act is to destroy the Human World in an instant with it. Zeno even considers it more fun than the tournament itself.
• In the ensuing, Zeno again goes ham on the poor protagonists with especial focus on Zatch. He kicks around the poor dude and fires off spells without rest to demoralize, demeaning them all the while. Buying time so Faudo land in Japan to commence the wide-scale destruction. During the fight, Riya – another Mamodo whom they befriended during the arc – takes a blow for Zatch and gets his book burned for his troubles. Does Zeno care? No. He also later attacks Riya’s now defenseless partner (along with the rest of Zatch’s friends) as part of the whole “I’ll show you despair” shtick.
• A little after the midpoint, Zeno declares he will erase Zatch’s memories of his experiences in the Human World so he can return to the Mamodo World alone and confused. Zeno actually comes this to succeeding in erasing Zatch’s memory a second time. When Kiyo cries out to Zatch, Zeno tells him to shut up and that he’s next.
• Upon defeat, Zatch tries to reach out to his brother. All Zeno can think about is why Zatch has Baou instead. As a final act of spite, before Zeno completely returns to the Mamodo World, Zeno destroys the one control over Faudo, leading to living weapon becoming a mindless, rampaging beast with the power to end the world. Zeno disappears, pleased with the outcome.

Heinousness standard?

As the anime Overtook the Manga and ended earlier, Clear Note is never introduced. So that means Anime!Zeno’s only competition in heinousness is Zofis, and Zeno more or less equals him.

• While Zofis did Mind Rape plenty of people, Zeno ultimately attempted to destroy the world with Faudo. Both also had the interest of becoming king, and both were total sadists. But Zeno’s vendetta takes it up a notch.
• His burning of Riya’s, Leo’s, Zaruchimu’s, Rops’s, and Baltro’s books give him a pseudo-bodycount. Which is actually higher than Zofis’s. And to say nothing of the many people he’s attacked directly.
• Do note that, until he took control over Faudo, Zeno was acting entirely by himself. Leo had the Faudo Cult, and Zofis had the 1000-year-old Mamodo. So Zeno ironically had little to no resources as aide. Just his immense power and ability. And even after he takes over Faudo, Zeno fights the gang by himself. No minions, no allies, no nothing. (Compared to manga where he gained some subjects via “Godafu”).

Redeeming Qualities?

See below.

Freudian Excuse or mitigating factors?

He loathes Zatch for the “sin of stealing Baou” from him. Baou in fact refers to Baou Zakeruga, Zatch’s ultimate spell. It’s apparently a special spell inherited from his father. So, this whole time, Zeno’s motivation for making Zatch’s life hell is because he couldn’t comprehend why a weakling like him got Baou instead.

Also, Zeno saved Dufort from an asylum of sorts. This isn’t really expanded upon. And considering the nature of series, there have been plenty of Mamodo who do whatever to get their partners just so, you know, they have someone to read their spells.

Lastly, Dufort experiences a mental breakdown after having a philosophical discussion with Kiyo. Zeno actually stops fighting to see about him. Initially, Zeno thinks Dufort is overusing his power. Once Dufort reveals that it’s because he’s afraid (Dufort’s an emotionless dude with no faith in humanity; Kiyo’s Power of Friendship rant made him go “Does not compute”), Zeno gets him back on track by saying he’ll erase his fears…. And proceeds to threaten to rob Zatch and Kiyo of their memories (especially that of their friends) because of what just happened. That's not out of protectiveness. He's still trying to make them suffer.

Overall, his relationship with Dufort is odd. They barely have personal interactions. Yet, when Dufort finally emotes and becomes hesitant, Zeno tries to get him into the game. But at that point, Zatch’s Heroic Second Wind has kicked in, and Zeno wants him gone, so he’s desperate and naturally needs spells read to achieve his ends.

Final verdict?

. Anime!Zeno is just a scumbag who lacks the redeeming charm Manga!Zeno had. Limited screentime and the path the anime took actually works in favor of his Adaptational Villainy. His Freudian Excuse and relationship with Dufort is too compressed and vague compared to the manga, ultimately robbing them of context that could have made potential mitigating (or even redeeming) factors. Therefore, Zeno instead comes off as a self-entitled bastard and sadist who wants his twin and everyone else around him to suffer. Anime!Zeno is evil through and through, and I think he counts.

edited 16th Sep '16 7:30:36 PM by erazor0707

Gonna go against my better judgement and say definite to both AA candidates after much consideration. I hate to do this, since I despise both of them, especially Ga'ran but Ga'ran is pretty much your bog standard evil overlord/dictator with no real character to her. There's also no evidence Ga'ran didn't care for her sister the previous queen as if she didn't, she would have her executed, with Nahyuta and Rayfa, rather than force her into hiding, and make Nahyuta and Rayfa into the antithesis of the Defiant Dragons. Unlike Dahlia and Manfred who have actual characterization and a reasonable excuse for their actions, however petty or non-mitigating it is, they at least have the character to stand out. From what I've seen, having played the game myself, Ga'ran is literally just a standard One Piece villain only with the resources of a queen. Unless someone can convince me otherwise, she's no better than a generic doomsday villain. Retinz as said before is pretty much just TMZ villainized. A douchebag? Sure. A heartless murderer? Definitely. A complete monster? No. I'm also against Redd White counting, and I'd be more than happy to rediscuss him and add to the people who don't want him counting. Finally, while Ga'ran passes the heinous standard, only one of her murders was successful and the majority of executions were handled by Inga, so he'd be a better candidate, but he doesn't count either since he genuinely loved his daughter, and again has that generic evil overlord look with no real personality to speak of. Just look at her: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/e/e3/Prosecutorgaran.png/revision/latest?cb=20160828023953. She literally looks Ultimecia's prosecutor expy.

Also people need to understand the difference between Hate Sink and Complete Monster. A character like Tirek from MLP: FIM? Hate sink. A character like Emperor Palpatine or Scar? Complete Monster. Just because a character is reviled by the audience, and in universe, doesn't mean they have the deeds or any sort to be a monster. Also Ga'ran is also a hate sink.

And I'm well aware of Ga'ran's crimes and I think people think she counts because of Offstage Villainy. We don't see her ordering any executions (the only one we see ordering executions is again, her husband Inga). The worst thing she did was order the defense culpability act and set up the current legal system, but given that her crimes were thwarted I don't think she has what it takes.

Also despite Marmoo's ridiculous name, he gets a from me.

edited 16th Sep '16 7:55:08 PM by Klavice

Eh, cut D'Arby I suppose.

Got Marmoo's write-up done BTW since he's unanimously a from everyone who voted.

Lord Marmoo is an Evil Overlord who longs to destroy the Amphibilands. With the help of Queen Jarrah, Marmoo conspires to remove the Veil, the Amphibilands' only source of defense, so he can storm the village. During his first assault, Marmoo leads his army into battle, wounding and killing some members of the village, before he murders Sergu the Turtle King and seemingly takes over the Amphibilands. After Marmoo's defeated and his army is teleported from the village, Queen Jarrah nurses him back to health, and he repays her by stinging her to death. Marmoo also attacks the Platypus Village, kills Chief Olba, and destroys Jarrah's castle in a fit of rage. Upon discovering that the residents of the Amphibilands lowered the Veil, he storms the village again, burns the Amphibilands to the ground, takes all the villagers hostage, and kills Arabanoo. Even after Lord Marmoo claims the village, he banishes all the wounded frogs to the desert in hopes that they'll all perish.

I'm not entirely sure how much of it should be spoiled, considering the show has only been out for a couple weeks.

Anime!Zeno only due to that part with him seeming concerned for Dufort's state of mind during the fight. He and his partner's actual partnership is the one area he differs from Zofis, whose partnership with Koko was disturbingly like a Kilgrave-esque Mind Rape romantic relationship.

I'd also like to add that if we count failed attempted murders, Phantom would probably still have Ga'ran beat as he bombed an entire courtroom and was a terrorist who also bombed the space station which would have caused well over thousands of deaths in those two bombing incidents. And Phantom also has three successful murders (one of which being the original Bobby Fulbright, the second being Athena's mother, and the third being Apollo's childhood friend.

And here is the Phantom's new writeup.

The international hired mercenary spy known only as the phantom is a nasty piece of work, and is one of the two figures, along with Kristoph Gavin who ushered in The Dark Age of The Law. His plan begins when he murders the cheerful Bobby Fulbright to assume his identity and become Simon Blackquill's handler. Before that, he killed Athena's mother and pretended to be her, and using a Noh mask hanging from her wall, as well as her jacket, he fooled the helper robots into thinking Athena (then an 11 year old child) had killed and disassembled her mother. By doing so, he gets the noble Prosecutor Blackquill convicted and proceeds to sabotage the HAT-1 rocket causing the astronaut to barely escape with his life. After that was all done, some 7 years later, he sent a warning to the director Yuri Cosmos, and when that was ignored, bombed the space station, afterwards he killed Apollo's best friend Clay Terran who tried to fight back, and threatened to expose his identity, framed the other astronaut and big brother figure to Apollo and Clay for the crime, and when that failed, bombed the courtroom to destroy a piece of evidence nearly causing the deaths of hundreds and framed Athena Cykes for the crime. He was also able to frame Athena's best friend, an Ill Girl named Juniper Woods for the courtroom bombing. Had it not been for Athena's moon rock earring being able to be compared with the destroyed moon rock, he would have gotten away with everything. Be that as it may, he also doesn't feel emotions the way a normal person does, and as such, is a chillingly realistic example of a Sociopath in a video game.

Edit: It has come to my attention (I forgot this crucial detail) that Ga'ran does in fact murder Apollo's fathers, his biological father by herself, and his adopted father through Inga. So yes, I will gladly concede and vote in favour of her.

edited 16th Sep '16 8:10:37 PM by Klavice