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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#45551: Oct 10th 2015 at 8:06:03 AM

[up] Welcome, and sorry about that. Just Banno did a TON of horrible things that need recounted.

But yeah, I can add it there if you want me to.

Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#45552: Oct 10th 2015 at 8:14:07 AM

[tup] to Joe, The Warden, Kagan, and Billy the Kid

@ACW: Like the idea about the pages, and thanks for removing the parenthetical.

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#45553: Oct 10th 2015 at 8:16:32 AM

[up]Okay, ACW, I added it like you asked.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#45554: Oct 10th 2015 at 8:19:13 AM

[up] [tup]. I'll work on that today or tomorrow and post it with the other tweaks.

edited 10th Oct '15 10:28:35 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
kirbystarwarior Since: Apr, 2011
#45555: Oct 10th 2015 at 8:22:43 AM

I've been wondering. Since Mephiles is the conscience of Solaris, shouldn't we be placing Solaris under CM and list the actions of Mephiles as Solaris's?

remystevens Since: Jan, 2015
#45556: Oct 10th 2015 at 11:00:16 AM

Hey, I know this was a while ago, but I submitted a suggestion for Ultra Humanite in the alternate reality book Generations. He seemed to fit all the criteria and most people agreed. I wanted to see if he could be added to the YMMV page for Superman & Batman:Generations. It's quite a few pages back but if you look, you can see he's a pretty heinous and despicable and being and alternate reality version he doesn't have his mainstreams counterparts actions as something that takes away from his evil.

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#45559: Oct 10th 2015 at 11:54:20 AM

Not yet, remystevens made an effortpost, then ACW helped the grammer.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#45560: Oct 10th 2015 at 12:14:38 PM

U have 4 [tup] for Joe Montague and 0 [tdown]. Is that enough to do the writeup?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Awesomekid42 Lord of Hell Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
Lord of Hell
#45562: Oct 10th 2015 at 12:26:15 PM

[up][up]

Usually, 5 [tup] is considered the minimum.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#45563: Oct 10th 2015 at 12:30:00 PM

Well, I got five.

edited 10th Oct '15 12:31:26 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#45564: Oct 10th 2015 at 12:53:32 PM

@ACW, since I don't know how to create individual sub pages for works without a main page, can you or someone create a YMMV page for the Transitions trilogy from the Legend of Drizzt so that the entry for Arklem Greeth can be put up?

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#45565: Oct 10th 2015 at 12:56:49 PM

[up] I'll take care of that eventually. Probably tomorrow, along with the batch. My head is killing me; think I'm gonna go to bed even though it's not even 4 PM yet.

edited 10th Oct '15 12:57:22 PM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#45566: Oct 10th 2015 at 1:04:14 PM

Felix Castor reread update: The villain of book 2 Vicious Circle, the Satanist anton Fanke, is a pretty solid keeper with his boss Asmodeus. The third book has no keepers and a pair of sympathetic villains, one an Anti-Villain the other less so, but she's so crazy and in so much pain that she can't qualify. The demon Moloch is nasty, but hardly to the levels needed

DeCarta Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Desperate
#45567: Oct 10th 2015 at 4:11:37 PM

@ACW Feel better!

It is better to write for yourself and have no public than to write for the public and have no self.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#45568: Oct 10th 2015 at 8:53:55 PM

Any more opinions on my Joe Montague writeup? It's my first one, and I want to know if I did well.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#45569: Oct 10th 2015 at 9:43:19 PM

I will give a somewhat late [tup] to Joe, Kagan, and Billy the Kid.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#45570: Oct 10th 2015 at 10:09:38 PM

[up][up][up] Thanks! Of course, it's now just after 1 AM, and I'm likely up for the day (I'm a morning person) [lol]. It's amazing what sleep can do for a headache smile
[up][up] Yeah, it looks good. If ANYTHING (and I'm not even sure if this is a problem), it's almost TOO concise.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#45571: Oct 10th 2015 at 10:27:56 PM

Now, before my next rounds of writeups, here's two more creeps:

From the 1951 Western film Rawhide, starring Tyrone Power and Susan Hayward, I bring to you the vicious Tevis, as played by one of the best Western villain actors ever Jack Elam

Who Is He?

Tevis is an escaped convict in a small gang led by Rafe Zimmerman, a convicted murderer who killed his girlfriend and her lover. On the day he was to hang, Zimmerman escaped with Tevis and the other two.

Now, at Rawhide Station, a young man named Tom Owens is sent to learn the trade of the business from the ground up. Owens has a week left before he returns to civilization when a young woman named Holt arrives with her very young niece Callie, trying to give the girl to Holt's parents after her mother (Holt's sister) and father died in a bar brawl.

Unfortunately, the convicts arrive, wanting a gold shipment that is passing through Rawhide the following day. Tevis is the most vicious and brutal of the convicts, who takes a disturbing attraction to Holt.

What Does He Do?

Tevis wastes no time killing the old stationmaster Todd. He soon attempts to force himself on Holt, but Zimmerman stops him, mistaking Holt and Callie for Tom's wife and daughter and figures Tom will cooperate better if they remain unharmed, and needs Tom to reassure the Cavalry that all is well at Rawhide before the convicts can depart. Zimmerman and Tevis are soon at odds as Callie and tom attempt to escape.

When Callie is sent through a small hole in the wall, Owens is led outside by Zimmerman for when the cavalry arrives. Tevis tries to rape Holt after and strangles her when she won't give in. Zimmerman interrupts him and forces Tevis to put her in a room and leave her be. Zimmerman makes a mistake of turning his back on Tevis after ordering him to lock the door and Tevis shoots him in the back. He then shoots another of his gang and tries to kill the last, a mentally slow man named Yancy who escapes.

Tevis then tries to kill Owens, and tries to force him to come out unarmed by...holding the gun on Callie herself. And then makes his point by shooting the ground near her to make her 'dance.' before he can pull the trigger on Callie or Tom, Holt shoots him with a rifle she recovered and kills him.

Redeeming features? Excuse? Heinous Standard?

None. The other members of the gang seem quite chummy, but Tevis clearly cares nothing for them. He also has no excuse for what he does. As for Heinous Standard, he sets it. Tevis is an attempted rapist, and commits every killing in the film, whether his side or not. Zimmerman is the boss, but he's definitely a more business type criminal. At one point he tells Tom not to worry about Tevis because he won't do anything stupid to Holt or Callie, clearly not understanding how unhinged Tevis really is.

All in all, an easy keep and I do recommend the movie because it's really good.

Second, from the Felix Castor novel Vicious Circle is the Satanist church leader Anton Fanke.

Who Is He? What's He Done?

Fanke is the boss of the Church of Satan of the Americas with a grand, ambitious plan: Hell on earth., For this purpose, Fanke wants to summon one of the oldest, baddest demons in all of hell: Asmodeus himself.

Now, years before, Felix's best friend, Rafael "Rafi" Ditko, was experimenting a bit and...called up Asmodeus into himself. A botched exorcism left his soul and Asmodeus entwined and bound, locked in an asylum heavily warded.

But I digress, Fanke's lover, Melanie "Mel" Torrington, was a junkie for violence and danger. She was dating an exorcist named Dennis Peace beforehand, and Fanke got an idea...for a true, proper sacrifice, you need to treat it right. You need to raise it, care for it, have it live specially...so Fanke had Mel conceive a child with Peace with dark magic helping them along. A baby girl named Abbie was born, and Fanke intended to sacrifice her after raising her for it. Peace tried to win custody of Abbie in court, but Fanke won. However, Peace discovered what Fanke truly planned. Mel finally broke down and told Peace where to help Abbie. Fanke later had her killed.

Peace failed to save Abby, who was sacrificed and murdered, but Asmodeus couldn't pass through because Peace saved her soul. Without devouring it, Asmodeus couldn't completely manifest. Instead that night, he was bound to Rafi and remained trapped. This didn't suit Fanke well at all.

Now, Fanke intends to complete the sacrifice. He kills Peace at last and frames Felix for the crime, implants parts of Asmodeus's soul in churchgoers at St. Michael's, which makes them go insane, losing inhibitions and attempting rape and murder. At the appointed time, he has a satanic altar prepared where he will sacrifice Abby by burning a lock of her hair. Asmodeus will be freed from Rafi, devour Abby's soul and rush into the real world and begin the real fun. Felix barely thwarts the whole affair.

Fanke is monster and as bad as Damjohn in a different way. He's a murderer, a childkiller, a demon worshipper who wants to cause mass destruction. No Freudian excuse or redeeming qualities. Not a damn thing. Easy keep alongside Damjohn. I have one last book to read, then I'll do Asmodeus's effortpost

As a sidenote, I do stress again demons in Felix Castor have agency. They're limited by a few thigns but they can choose to be something different. Juliet makes a conscious choice to stay on earth as an exorcist and swear off murdering and eating men (it's not even really her fault, she's just wired that way. Lust with men triggers her hunger), hence why she starts dating the sweet librarian she meets.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#45572: Oct 10th 2015 at 10:49:04 PM

[tup] to both of the above. Fanke's easy, and as for Tevis, if there was ANY question, his going to kill the kid only confirms his CM status.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#45573: Oct 10th 2015 at 11:13:00 PM

"Fanke is the boss of the Church of Satan of the Americas with a grand, ambitious plan: Hell on earth"

You pretty much had me sold there.[tup]

And [tup] Tevis.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#45574: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:14:08 AM

[up][up] I was worried about the conciseness, but the film itself is 1 hour, 20 minutes long, so there's not much to say.

@Ravok: Did I miss things? I don't recall those effortposts.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:15:13 AM by DemonDuckofDoom

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#45575: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:04:28 AM

So I decided to do a better effortpost from the movie High Risk (which has its own page now). Since he's got no [tdown] votes and at least seven [tup] votes, I'll probably be putting him on the YMMV page after the effortpost is approved.

"The Doctor" is a Mad Bomber and the leader of a terrorist group in Hong Kong. Two years after blowing up a bus full of children, the Doctor and his terrorists attack the newly opened Hotel Grandeur so they can steal all the jewelry from one of the exhibits. They kill dozens during the takeover as they take all the guests hostage. When Kit Li realizes that the Doctor is the same terrorist who bombed the bus and tries to kill him, he stops pretending to be a guest and takes command of the group; the Doctor then demands for a chopper or else he'll start murdering hostages. After losing several men because of Li, the Doctor has Frankie's manager thrown from the building's balcony. The Doctor orders his men to confront Li when he shows, but after Li crashes a helicopter into the hotel and kills more of his mercenaries, the Doctor kidnaps Helen, straps a bomb to her, and flees, leaving Li to disarm the bomb on his own. The Doctor escapes police custody by pretending to be a wounded guest and later calls Li from a phone booth to tell him that he got away and that he can't disarm his bomb. Even after Li figures out how to disarm the device, the Doctor gloats that he's free to Rape, Pillage, and Burn as he pleases, moments before he suffers a Karmic Death.

That better?

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

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