Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I also vote cutting Carter/Terminal from the Batman Beyond YMMV page. He's kind of a Jerkass Woobie, since his mother pushed him to be the best and when he got the 2nd highest grade, she called him "the winning loser". While that doesn't make his actions ok, they're still understandable.

Speaking of Batman Beyond, I don't think Jackson Chappell is CM material. He sold drugs to teens. That's it.

I don't know if the abridged series debate is still going on, but abridged!Freiza is actually pretty chilling. He has a sense of humour, but his actual atrocities aren't played for laughs. He's Laughably Evil, not a joke character.

Does anybody have any further opinion on the Videogame examples I brought up here? Ridley's been transplanted to the Anime and Manga page, but so far there's only been one comment towards Yami's removal. Also, I deleted the Thalmor.

EDIT: On the videogame sandbox, someone readded the examples from Amnesia The Dark Descent. I think it was decided that Daniel and the Baron don't qualify, but Justine, I think, was cut for having a poorly written entry. However the new entry mentioned that Justine did the same crimes as the other two but For the Evulz. Should she be kept with the new write-up?

edited 16th Sep '12 1:19:20 PM by OccasionalExister

This was pages ago, but I wasn't trying to bash DBZ Abridged. Dead Baby Comedy and humour like it is very, VERY hard to pull off without coming off as distasteful or monstrous. It's probably why we had characters from It's Always Sunny... on the CM page - because someone read Dennis as being a monster instead of a Comedic Sociopath. If the humour is not impeccably executed, then there is a very real chance that someone will read what's supposed to be humorous as something horrifying. It's a pitfall of all kinds of dark humour, and it's why shows that rely on it are very divisive. So back to DBZ Abridged, we cannot penalize the show for a Viewer Reaction counter to the supposed on - it's a failure on the show, not on the character.

I wouldn't say so. Most of the humour of Freiza's portrayal derives from the fact that he's this deadly serious threat, in a show that's otherwise a total parody. It's hardly penalizing the show if it was their intent, and as we've said before, Tropes Are Not Bad anyway. If the show has a monster it has a monster. That's hardly a stain on its reputation.

Kind of makes me wonder what would happen if someone was to Abridge Monster... {shudder}

At the time I'd written that initially (two days ago), I had no idea that Frieza wasn't Played for Laughs, and the description made it sound like Comedic Sociopathy done wrong, because it involved someone being punched (?).

edited 16th Sep '12 1:34:45 PM by LargoQuagmire

That's the sort of CM I'd expected to be possible in an abridged series (not saying he is, since I haven't read the page or anything); I just wasn't clear on whether however-you-want-to-spell it was Played for Laughs or not.

Also, I think we've got way too many things being discussed right now. Can someone sum them up?

I did see that, and sent the editor a PM about the cleanup effort the moment I caught it in my watchlist.

Anyways, I did see they HAD been up there until they were cut from the page for being stubs. Having not played the game or the Justine DLC through, I can't exactly weigh in though I heard a few things about the background.

EDIT: And let me guess, IIRC, for Monster.Pokemon Anime, I think consensus says cut everything except for Hunter J, maybe Giovanni and some other thing I don't remember clearly, right?

edited 16th Sep '12 1:58:25 PM by EarlOfSandvich

I think Kodai's supposed to be staying.

Freiza cracks a lot of bad jokes, and other characters mock him (as they do each other) but whenever he gets serious, the show does too. In particular, his killing of Vegeta causes the show to stop dead in its tracks, it's so jarring.

Of course the next episode he's back to being the butt of jokes. While Abridged Freeza certainly is the darkeset villian thust far, I'm still going on record as saying that none of the abridged villians count as C Ms, they're all just played too lightly. Even all of Freeza's crimes are played for laughs (impaling Krillen on his horn? The Krillen owned counter goes up and up and up and then he starts getting 1-Ups from it. Killing all the sayians? Vegeta stops to ask how he knew about the parts he wasn't there for. Etc. etc. etc.).

And then huge parts of his battle with Goku are played dead straight. I'm not saying that he counts for sure, but I do object to the idea that we can automatically dismiss any character on the basis of genre.

Point noted.

I cut the Amnesia examples from the Sandbox, since they were cut before for not conforming to the standards and something like that should be handled on the forum. Nothing on motivations, nothing on context, just a list of actions (which probably happened offscreen) and a "depending on your interpretation" which is another big no-no.

edited 16th Sep '12 5:45:02 PM by Shaoken

There's a link on the page for film that needs to go. Under the picture of the Scorpio killer it says "They said they wanted an actor for the Scorpio Killer who had the face of a choir boy". Draco in Leather Pants refers to an audience reaction. It should say "They said they wanted an actor for the Scorpio Killer who had the face of a choir boy." We shouldn't be linking to another YMMV trope, especially since I highly doubt the film was trying to invoke DILP.

EDIT: Also the line in the James Bond section where it says Frank Sanchez is Affably Evil on occasion needs to go. Affably Evil isn't something you do some of the time. It's an entire personality type, and it's one that really can't overlap with this trope. Given the number of times I've seen it in Complete Monster entries I'm starting to think that it might rival this trope for most misused one on the site.

edited 16th Sep '12 6:26:26 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Seconded.

Another wonderfully short and bad example from film.

"•Mr. Harvey in The Lovely Bones. The way he's found out is when his Scrapbook o' Susie is found, including his plan for killing her, pictures of her, and a lock of her hair."

No context whatsoever. Question—that sandbox for film. Has it been set up yet, and if so, where would one go to take a look at it?

EDIT: This comment on the Sweeney Todd entry on film serves no purpose.

"Alan Rickman may have said it best when he said "it's hard to say who isn't the Big Bad Wolf in this film." Every main character in this movie crosses the Moral Event Horizon at least once, even Toby; it's just easier to look the other way in Sweeney's case, because of what the Judge did to him."

Also, there's this entry. The guy sounds truly awful, but should he really be here?

"•Chad, the Villain Protagonist of 90s cult dark comedy In the Company of Men. What's most baffling is that, unlike almost every other example listed on this page, he commits not one murder, rape, arson, jaywalk, or indeed any other criminal offense. Yet he is perhaps one of the most disgusting and unsympathetic characters ever portrayed on film. First, he cooks up a scheme with his pathetic divorcee 'friend' Howard, both of whom having endured messy break-ups with their respective partners. They decide to both date a sweet naive deaf girl, string her along and fill her with false hopes all the while using her for casual sex, then dump her, leaving her heartbroken and embittered. All the while this is happening, we are treated to Chad's daily routine: cracking sexist jokes, humiliating and slagging off his so-called friends behind their backs, and treating the people who work for him like shit (he's apparently some kind of businessman, though we never see him do any work other than brown nosing the right people). Eventually, Howard realizes that he loves the deaf girl and calls the whole thing off, and Chad responds by backstabbing him and getting him demoted to a lower paying job. Then, at the climax of the film, we realize that the one thing that gave Chad the slightest bit of sympathy to start with was a lie: his girlfriend never dumped him or was anything other than faithful. He'd just wanted to manipulate Howard more easily. An appalled Howard asks him why and Chad leers: "Because I could." Then, while Howard undergoes a nervous breakdown, he gets back into bed with his beautiful, completely oblivious girlfriend, who gives him a well-earned blowjob. HE IS NOT PUNISHED IN THE SLIGHTEST. NOT ONCE IN THE WHOLE FILM. What makes Chad so monstrous is that despite the comfortable upbringing, college education, good job, fancy apartment, and steady relationship with a woman who loves him, this isn't enough. So he belittles and humiliates the people around him purely out of sadistic pleasure. We know this because he constantly asks people how they're feeling, usually before and after he's ruined their day, so that he may rest assured that his efforts were not in vain. And yet despite being a smug manipulative sociopath with no regard for anything but his own satisfaction, he strikes you as the sort of person you could bump into and not bat an eyelid, even find quite likable. He's a normal human being. And what makes the film so hard to watch is the way it shows how mundane evil can be. Now, how do you feel? ◦There is an extremely good review of Chad's personality at the Ruthless Reviews website. "For all the men who have been beaten down by manipulative women, or been forced to endure petty, selfish, unnerving cunts year after year, Aaron Eckhart’s Chad is an unmatched hero. But lest you think he is mean and selfish because he got hurt, he eventually reveals his true malevolence: he displays cruelty for no other reason than the chestnut, “because he can.” Women across the country hated the film, I’m guessing because at one time they have all loved a man like Chad. And perhaps still do.""

If we're refining the trope to only the very worst, than I think this guy's gotta go. He's nasty, unpleasant, and horrible, but he hasn't actually done anything. There are characters from Family Channel shows who actually make more concerted efforts to hurt people.

EDIT: Another example that tells us little.

"•Linton Barwick of In the Loop — and being the least likable character in that particular film is an achievement in itself. For most characters, using a live hand grenade as a paperweight would be awesome, but not this charmless warmonger. For him, the vote to go to war is a mere personal battle, and his determination to send thousands of people to their deaths is driven by his pride. He revels in his ability to start an illegal war without a shred of evidence for it, and his power to crush and belittle anyone who may get in his way. Most in the film are terrified of him, and only Malcolm Tucker seems to show the slightest shred of bravery in his face: Malcolm: I've met a lot of psychos, but none as fucking boring as you — I mean, you're a real boring fuck. Oh sorry, I know you don't approve of swearing, so we'll sort that out: you are a boring eff-star-star-CUNT."

EDIT: The entry for the father under the film Saviour should go too. He doesn't actually kill the girl, which makes him a lot better than either the Serb Sociopathic Soldier or the Croatian general.

edited 16th Sep '12 6:40:33 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

edited 16th Sep '12 7:06:21 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

@Ambar: Yeah, change the Scorpio link, the one you made seems more apropriate

Chad: What a dick. What a serious Dick, I even know some people like that (and even they have some Excuse about having an inferiority complex). He is not a CM, just a Manipulative Bastard and a Jerkass. If we do keep him (which I find unlikely), remove the ALLCAPS which basically says Karma Houdini.

Harvey's entry on the YMMV page for the Lovely Bones is better, at least for the film, but could be expanded, and it should have the ALLCAPS removed.

For reference here it is:

Complete Monster: George Harvey personifies this trope in that he lures the main character into a makeshift, underground clubhouse, rapes her, then murders her and SLICES HER TO PIECES. And he's raped and killed other girls before her. — Lovely Bones YMMV.

edited 16th Sep '12 7:11:23 PM by DrPsyche

I don't feel that Chad (In the Company of Men) measures up to the base level of heinousness. It says right in the example that he doesn't commit a single crime. He just seems to want to be the biggest jerk possible. Horrible excuse for a human being that he is I don't think that he is a complete monster.

edited 16th Sep '12 7:07:46 PM by SophiaLonesoul

The page is locked. How would I go about getting the link changed? Somebody told me a few pages back, but I never could figure out how exactly to do it.

Go to the FAQ section of the forums, to the edit requests for locked pages and put in a request for it citing this thread.

I've made the request.

I just deleted Super Kami Guru from YMMV.Dragon Ball Abridged. Earl, thank you for deleting him from Monster.Web Original.

I also deleted Grelod, the Thalmor, the Dragon Priests, and the Aylieds from Monster.The Elder Scrolls. While I was there, I noticed that Umaril and Potema were listed. Their crimes were done in the past, but they do pose as genuine threats, so I'm not sure if they count or not.

I also deleted Grelod, the Dragonborn, the Dragon Priests, and the Thalmor from CM and MEH in YMMV.Skyrim. I left Vasha in case anyone else wants to discuss him.

edited 16th Sep '12 7:52:45 PM by ChaoticQueen

No problem. Anyways, just waiting for any possible discussion (in case I missed something) before I act upon the Monster.Pokemon pages (still in favor of merging them)

edited 16th Sep '12 8:21:47 PM by EarlOfSandvich