During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I never put in my official vote, so I still wanted to say it. Probably didn't need to. My bad.
@ Ambar, surprisingly...
"Don't you understand? Spring will never com again if something happens to Spectra. Iv'e never been there, but it's part of me. It's part of the colors and the joy that we bring, n if Spectra dies, happieness everywhere will die. Without the light of life, we'll all... all of us will die"
If you think I am making that quote up, than check out the "Never Say "Die" aversion on the Rainbow Brite page.
edited 30th Sep '14 6:20:27 PM by bobg
jjj
Well, here's what I think is a write up for Felix.
Who is he?
Felix is a mercenary apparently hired by the New Republic. He passes himself off as a good man, and paints the Federation of Chorus as bad guys. In reality Locus (the Federation merc) and Felix are part of a third party working for a mysterious man known as Control. In contrast to Locus, who just wants to do the job, Felix always feels the need to gloat in his enemy's faces (that often doesn't work out so well). Felix is probably the biggest sociopath in the series.
What does he do?
He helps manipulate an entire Civil War on a planet, and laughs about it. Felix actually states that he wanted to nuke the planet from orbit to kill everyone, and states it in a casual manner. When Control tells Locus and Felix to report the Reds and Blues as dead (despite that they aren't), Felix seems to very willingly go along with it (all the while impaling a dead Fed soldier with his knife). You don't need to see Felix kill people himself to see what he has done. You just need to look at the situation of the civil war, and you realize just how evil Felix is for going through with this.
Is he heinous by the standards of the story?
OH DEAR GOD, YES. He is a sociopath played completely seriously. Nothing is funny when he's around, and his psychopathic antics and Evil Gloating are not played for laughs. The fact is that the threat that he and Locus carry is played completely seriously. In fact, even comparing him to Locus makes Locus look like a saint (keep in mind, Locus is mercenary who has committed the same crimes as Felix, but acting more like a weapon than a sociopath).
Any redeeming qualities?
He does have that whole "he and Locus fought together in the Great War" thing going on with him, but that hardly justifies his actions. His actions may be the least justified out of any Red Vs Blue character.
Final Verdict?
I say Felix is a Complete Monster.
edited 30th Sep '14 6:39:59 PM by SatoshiBakura
Two things I need clarified before I put my vote; who were the worst villains in the series beforehand and what did they do, and where does Locus stand in all this?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Here's the list (in parenthesis is the reasons why they are not a Complete Monster):
- Omega: wanted to crush every being to dust (to comedic).
- The Meta: killed several Freelancers to get their AI's (didn't kill enough people+is being controlled by Sigma).
- The Director: the highly immoral leader of Project Freelancer, and the indirect cause of everything in the series (all of this started because his love, Allison, died).
- Sigma: virtually the same things that the Meta has done in season 6 (not heinous enough and he was driven by ambition).
- Locus: the same things that Felix has done (too Affably Evil and just feels more like a weapon than a sociopath).
My breakdown on the characters.
One doesn't necessarily have to be a Monster to set the heinous standard, but Felix does seem pretty bad.
When has Locus been Affably Evil?
Can we get up to date with the edit thread at least, too? I'd really like to see these uploaded
Just so no problems arise in the work page, I'd like to propose Eliza from Skullgirls as a Complete Monster after beating her story mode. Aside from what everyone in the audience already knew in that she steals blood by disguising it as a charity donation, she kills Cerebella without so much as a second thought once Eliza gets fed up with the Medicis, enslaves Ms. Fortune so she has an endless supply of blood to drain, kills Squigly just as a way to get a signal as to when the Skull Heart comes back (since her coming back to life would mean someone became the Skullgirl again), and entombs Filia alive just for the purpose of keeping Samson alive until she finds him a host that would be willing to serve her. All done without any remorse whatsoever. According to Leviathan she was also a ruthless ruler in the universe's equivalent to Ancient Egypt and essentially enslaved anybody and everybody. Of all the characters Skullgirls has she is by far the most vile.
@ 31195 Ambar Sonof Deshar, fair enough. The movie doesn't present Bavmorda's motives as sympathetic though. Also I may be getting into spoilers, but this movie is from 1988. The prophecy in in this movie is a Prophecy Twist, the baby did not destroy Bavmorda, Willow destroyed Bavmorda protecting the baby from her. So if Bavmorda simply ignored the prophecy it would not have affected her, the baby was not really a threat to her. Also the plans to destroy the baby's soul seem like overkill and I think many people would think that goes beyond mere self preservation.
On another note, if we count say super hero cartoons as kids shows, we have seen many examples from those types of shows (at least ones after 1992), so I think it depends on the type of kids show.
Also have we ever discussed whether any of the villains from the Ninja Gaiden series counted? If not, I could propose some of them.
edited 30th Sep '14 9:14:45 PM by TheOverlord
Affably Evil means your geniunely polite. Even when he's killing people, Locus is always polite about it. Also, at one point, he admits that he's never disobeyed an order. Locus is most definitely not kind, but he just does what needs to be done and doesn't kick dogs to get there, very much unlike Felix.
If I could weigh in on Felix from Red Vs Blue, after The Reveal he's played completely seriously. Initially, when he appears to be a good guy, he gets some vaguely funny moments, but it all turns out to be part of an act. While everyone else in the series, even the Meta and Gamma (both of whom were struck off on this thread a long time ago), had some redeeming moments or traits, Felix simply doesn't.
Based on this, I'm proposing this as a very loose write-up. It will need some re-drafting:
- While he initially presents himself as something of a good guy, Felix is a sociopathic Psycho for Hire that shows no hesitation in twisting the knife just to cause as much emotional pain as he can to his victims. Manipulating the New Republic and its leader, Felix outright takes pleasure in watching both sides of the war kill each other, remorselessly sacrificing those under his command to complete the mission at hand. When going through his Motive Rant, after he and his men brutally murder several Federation soldiers and non-combatants, he laughs in the face of the Blood Gulch crew, casually mentioning that he would rather complete his assignment by nuking the planet from orbit and letting the survivors die from radiation poisoning. Later, after his boss and partner offer the team the chance to simply leave and never return, Felix openly hopes that the crew will refuse the offer and give him an excuse to hunt them down. Once the plan turns out to have failed, his response is to try and murder everyone on the spot, only being talked down by his more pragmatic partner. In contrast to Consummate Professional Locus, who doesn't Kick the Dog when he doesn't need to and is implied to have a tragic past, Felix has no redeeming or amusing qualities whatsoever, a first for anyone in the series.
Again, it needs a serious rewrite, but it's a start. Satoshi summed up his crimes pretty well.
edited 1st Oct '14 8:04:23 AM by captainmarkle
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
@ Ambar like I said, surprisingly, the movie makes it clear it is not Harmless Freezing. When we first see the princess, someone is telling her that if she moves the diamond planet Spectra out of its foundation, she and everyone else will be "destroyed".
As for the series itself, yes Ambar, Rainbow Brite is a Sugar Bowl series. It takes place in Rainbow land, and the inhabitants are in charge of bringing color to the world. There are only six villains in the whole show (not counting minions:
Murky and Lurky: The main villains. Well, one villain and his Kindhearted Simplleton sidekick. Murky used to love colors, but when he was young, he drew on the wall and his mom scolded him. Now he wants to drain the whole world of color. Lurky is his Affably Evil assistant who is not evil at all and likes colors and only helps Murky because he does not know better.
Sorrel: A wizard who only appeared in one episode. He gave Murky a spell to destroy the color caves in exchange for Murky fixing his spaceship.
Monstromurk: a monster summoned by murky, only in one episode.
King of shadows: The only other dark villain in the show, ruled Rainbowland in the past.
The dark princess: The character I am nominating.
jjj
Let me start by saying I've finished The Emperor's Blades and I fully support Belendin and Yurl's addition to the trope. I can't say one overshadows the other and they're both utter beasts. Yurl does deny he did anything to Ha Lin, but this is kinda suspect as he's begging for his life and had previously bragged about helping out about it while he had the upper hand.
Belendin's backstory doesn't seem remotely sympathetic. He was recruited into the Kettrels because he was so horrible and he absolutely revels in hurting people. He seems utterly addicted to the rush he gets from negative emotions towards him . As an aside, when he and Yurl kill the prostitute Amie, it would be entirely reasonable for Belendin to give her a bunch of money and a meal and use her positive emotions to fuel his powers instead of torturing her to death for the negative emotion. I do strongly suspect he's still alive, though, so he might pull off more in the future books.
I'm gonna say yes to Felix and Bavmorda for now.
I'm also going to say Eliza from Skullgirls sounds like a yes, so I'll vote for now.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Belendin and to Yurl.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Effortpost? A search turned up nothing.
Ambar brought them up a mere ten pages ago. We voted on them.
Lizzid people!
@bobg: How does the Dark Princess compare with the King of Shadows?
A total has-been.
King of Shadows is pretty much like King Sombra from MLP, a Generic Doomsday Villain defined by his darkness and how he hurts others. Standard evil villainy. After hearing that Dark Princess was acknowledged to be committing omnicide in-universe, I'm giving her a .
edited 1st Oct '14 12:04:28 PM by AnewMan
I just now realized that I did see that Rainbow Bright movie. I am not convinced on Dark Princess, it was ambiguous to me whether or not she even believed moving the gem would kill everyone, for one thing. The entire earth froze over and then thawed harmlessly, for another thing. She controlled prisoners by hypnotizing robots, which is a hecka tame way to go about things. It looks like she got the sprites to do her bidding in the episode she returned in by threatening to turn them into frogs, tricking them by taking one into a cave and coming back with a frog w/o actually doing anything. She seems pretty child friendly to me.
- The Barrow by Mark Smylie: Gilgwyr, a supposed Lovable Rogue and Evil Sorcerer Leigh are both members of The Nameless Cults that worship the dark Forbidden Gods. Manipulating the novel's main character Stjepan and their companions into locating the titular Barrow and entering it, Leigh and Gilgwyr proceed to kill almost everyone in the adventuring party while leaving the corpses for flesh eating Ghuls. Gilgwyr personally leaves two to be eaten alive. The purpose for the two is to resurrect the monstrous, cannibalistic tyrant Azharad, buried deep in the barrow so he can proceed to raze the world. Leigh is driven by revenge against the mages who ejected him from their fellowship as well as greed while Gilgwyr is simply enjoying himself. The two also ritualistically torture and murder women, including the handmaiden of Azharad's chosen bride, before intending to offer Stjepan's flesh and soul for Azharad's appetites. Leigh tricks Gilgwyr and instead makes him Azharad's meal before going on with the ritual while ranting about the power he will obtain.
Lizzid people!
@rexpensive: If the movie outright stated that everything would die if she removed the gem, then she knew exactly what she was doing.
Also, I'm going to do some more research on Sister Abraham.
edited 1st Oct '14 12:29:50 PM by AustinDR
@ Austin, I think that Rexpensive is saying that the princess may have thought that everyone was lying. However, at no point in the film does she actually accuse them of lying. She does not even respond whenever anyone tells her, she ignores them. If she actually thought they were lying, I think she would have said that instead of just ignoring them.
edited 1st Oct '14 1:17:01 PM by bobg
jjj
I really do not think she took them seriously because she never really acknowledged what would happen.
In any case I am voting no on her.
I believe Clown's already been approved; everyone else was deemed not a Monster.