To-do list:
- Move examples to a trope on the Hollywood Nerd trope page if they fit, and remove them if they don't. For reference purposes, here's the list of tropes on the disambiguation page:
- Adorkable: A dorky, unpopular character is considered cute/appealing by the audience.
- Cool Loser: A character is treated as an unpopular loser even though they have many qualities (physically attractive, has a "cool" hobby, is social and charismatic, etc.) that should have made them popular.
- Endearingly Dorky: When a dorky character is considered cute and appealing for their dorky qualities in-universe.
- Hollywood Homely: A character said to be plain/unappealing in-universe, even though they are portrayed by a conventionally attractive actor.
- Nerd: A usually intelligent but socially and/or physically awkward person. Often a Bully Magnet in high school settings.
- Nerds Are Sexy: Nerdy characters are considered attractive in-universe specifically because of their nerdy qualities.
Original post
According to the description, this trope is supposed to describe when a nerd in media is superficially portrayed, such that we the audience are told and shown by how the other characters treat this character that they are a Nerd, but there isn't really anything about their behavior/their interests/what that character engages in that indicates they are a nerd or at best, those things are superficial. Despite that, other characters in-universe still treat the character as if they are no different from any other Nerd: ugly, undesirable, socially inept, etc. In other words, it's a version of "telling not showing," with the character often being styled similar to a stereotypical Nerd, but there isn't much the character actually does to necessarily warrant the label.However, a lot of the examples (if they aren't ZCE, of which there are many) are just conflating this trope with Hollywood Homely, i.e. this character who is supposed to be a Nerd (and therefore unattractive) in-universe is played by an attractive actor. (This is likely because being attractive is part of the Hollywood Nerd, but it is not the totality of the trope.) A good chunk of the remaining examples remove the in-universe perception all together (i.e. that other characters must treat the Hollywood Nerd like a Nerd in-universe), which ends up amounting to "this character has [what I the troper have determined to be] nerdy qualities/interests and is cute." And there are several other examples that actually highlight the inverse of this trope: a character who is shown to be a nerd or geek due to their interests and habits, but are still considered attractive, social, and desirable in-universe, sometimes because of their nerdy tendencies, but often in spite of them. And then there's others that simply conflate Hollywood Nerd with Nerd, which may be a remnant of a past version of the trope. There's plenty of overlap with the types of misuse but the overall point is that none of them are actually the trope as described.
A wick check on 51 pages (below) shows 0 correct uses, which is not...great. (FWIW, on page examples fair slightly better with 6 (out of 74) fairly correct uses but the overall problem still persists. See sandbox
.)
My advice: This trope for the most part seems to be a combination of Nerd and Hollywood Homely so discarding the trope and moving whatever examples are salvageable to the respective pages may be for the best.
Given how many times this trope has been to TRS since its inception (this would be the third I think), I'm not so sure it's workable at this point.
Wick Check: 51
- Correct: 0% (0)
- Hollywood Homely Conflation: 20% (10)
- No In-universe context: 18% (9)
- Unacknowledged Inverse: 2% (1)
- Ambiguous: 2% (1)
- Conflating with Nerd: 29% (15)
- Zero Context: 29% (15)
Examples are listed as - Work Page, Page Where Trope Is (If Not On Main Page), Name of Character (if on a character page): copied example
- Bones, Bones, Temperance Brennan: A highly intelligent and skilled but socially awkward forensic anthropologist whose beauty is frequently commented on.
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season Specific Tropes: An Enforced Trope with Willow. The pilot had Willow played by a plus-sized actress but Whedon was ordered to replace her with a thinner, more conventionally attractive actress.
- Family Matters, Family Matters, Myra Monkhouse: Is supposed to be geeky like Steve, despite being played by a gorgeous actress.
- Gilmore Girls, Gilmore Girls, Rory: For a supposed "nerd", Rory's stunning.
- Friends, Friends: Main Characters, Ross Gelling: He's fairly attractive for a nerdy and nebbish paleontologist.
- Casino Royale (2006), Casino Royale (2006), Le Chiffre:A math nerd who uses an inhaler, yet he's trim and handsome.
- Bully,Bully, Beatrice Trudeau: She's obviously very cute beneath her old-fashioned hairstyle and cat-eye glasses, however...
- Veronica Mars, Veronica Mars, Wallace Fennel: He's allegedly meant to be pretty nerdy and unpopular, but he's very handsome, charming, and in good shape.
- Veronica Mars, Veronica Mars, Stosh Piznarski: He's pretty ripped but treated as a nerd by everyone.
- Sky High (2005): Layla's in the geeky crowd but is still considered quite pretty, and she gets a more traditional nerd hitting on her during her very first day of school.
- Ace Attorney, Ace Attorney Detectives And Other Law Enforcement Officers, Emma Skye: She's very beautiful and is a fangirl of Steel Samurai and Pink Princess.
- Agravity Boys, Agravity Boys, In General: Arguably Baba, Chris and Geralt as they are all portrayed as both good looking and nerdy. Especially Geralt, who was seen as handsome by his female peers at the academy.
- Alvin and the Chipmunks, Alvin and the Chipmunks: Main Cast, Simon Seville: His CGI counterpart voiced by Matthew Gray Gubler is portrayed as this. His fans see him as this as well, since they consider him quite cute himself in various ways and play it in contrast to Alvin's outright Chick Magnet.
- Continuum, Characters/Continuum, Alec Sadler: Despite being a reasonably good looking fellow, the show would have us believe that Emily is the first girl that has shown an interest in him.
- Food Wars!, Food Wars! - Polaris, Zenji Marui : Actually quite handsome when he's drawn nicely (i.e. when he's not in his nervous breakdowns).
- Good Witch, Good Witch, Phil Sturgis: A software engineer portrayed by a handsome actor.
- Dawson's Creek, Dawson's Creek, Joey: Joey is kind of a nerd since she is a major bookworm and a bit of a loner. However, she is not at all unattractive in physical appearance.
- Elena of Avalor, Elena of Avalor - Team Avalor, Mateo de Alva: A socially awkward teen who's obsessed with magic, with the looks and singing chops of your average Disney Prince.
- The Venture Brothers: Jean-Claude Le Tueur is a handsome and extremely wealthy assassin whose last known whereabouts were the San Diego Comic-Con; when asked by customs at the airport whether he had anything to declare, he shouted "Excelsior!"
- Agravity Boys, Agravity Boys, In General: Arguably Baba, Chris and Geralt as they are all portrayed as both good looking and nerdy. Especially Geralt, who was seen as handsome by his female peers at the academy.
- Good Omens (2019), Good Omens (2019), Newton "Newt" Pulsifer: Played by the attractive Jack Whitehall, but is socially awkward, can't hold on to a computer job because of his Walking Techbane status, has Nerd Glasses, Messy Hair, and unflattering clothing, and hadn't even kissed a girl until he met Anathema.
- American Pie, American Pie, Michelle: She's the team's token fat girl and she has a fetish for John F Kennedy.
- Bully,Bully, Nerds: They are the traditional 80's high school Hollywood Nerd - smart in academics, gadgeteering, weaponry, pop culture, and chemistry, but not in socializing and physical combat.
- CSI: NY, CSI: NY, Adam Ross:Lab coat...check. Messy hair...quite often. Sci Fi nut? Oh, yeah.
- Desperate Housewives, Desperate Housewives - Families, Zach Young:Paul constantly points out how superior to Zach Julie is, and he's apparently very unpopular.
- Dino Attack RPG, Dino Attack Primary Characters, Charlie: Charlie Schultz was a geeky guy who went to Star Wars conventions.
- Dragons Rioting, Dragons Rioting, Kagamiin Kyoka: Braided pigtails and glasses - the whole nine yards. Didn't start out as such but between early childhood and high school was very much so before she decided that instead of hitting the books, she'd try out hitting people and redid her wardrobe to become the woman she is today.
- Follow Me, Follow Me, Peter (Petyo): He's shy, studious, geeky, into comics, manga, video games and conspiracy theories.
- FoxTrot, FoxTrot, Morton Goldthwait: Glasses? Check. Unpopular with the ladies? Check. About as nerdy, if not more so, than Jason? Check and mate.
- Freaks and Geeks, Freaks and Geeks, Bill Haverchuck:Type 1. Bill looks like the archetypal nerd out of the Geeks, although he isn't exactly "intelligent" — he's witty and has amazing one-liners, but he's actually kind of dumb.
- American Vandal, American Vandal - Season 1, Peter Maldonado: Short, skinny, bespectacled, good with tech, unpopular. Subverted later on in the series as his documentary series gains him a fair amount of popularity. Then possibly doubly subverted with Mackenzie's "Reason You Suck" Speech.
- A.P. Bio, A.P. Bio, Heather Wilmore: Her appearance is quintessential Hollywood nerd, with coke-bottle glasses, a tendency to mouth-breathe, and very outdated fashion.
- Breaking Bad, Breaking Bad: Los Pollos Hermanos, Gale Boetticher: Incredibly nerdy, with his special love of SCIENCE!, karaoke, and Walt Whitman.
- Castle, Tropes E to L: Beckett is enough of a comic book geek to recognize the difference between Frank Miller's work for DC Comics and his later Dark Horse Comics work.
- The Urbz: All the members of the Nerdies are stereotypically nerdy characters who apparently love tabletop gaming and taking classes at college.
- The Venture Brothers: Henchman #21, whose "weapons arsenal" consists of replicas, collectibles, and Hulk Hands.
- Arrow, Tropes H to M
- A Very Potter Musical, A Very Potter Musical, The Weasley Brothers
- Boy Meets World, Boy Meets World, Topanga Lawrence
- Bratz, Bratz, Dana
- Chuck, Chuck: Team Bartowski, Chuck Bartowski: Zachary Levi scrubs up far too well to make a believable nerd. However, this is Truth in Television, as he's One of Us.
- Dragons Rioting, Dragons Rioting, Marokichi
- Emerald City Confidential, Emerald City Confidential, Cutter/William: Type 1. Although Cutter's not quite as weak or pathetic, considering he was The Mole for the Phanfasms.
- Harem Prince, Harem Prince, Aya Waseda
- High School Musical, High School Musical, Gabriella Montez: Played by the gorgeous Vanessa Anne Hudgens with somewhat messy hair and (occasionally) a labcoat.
- High School Musical, High School Musical, Taylor McKessie: Every single character who's part of the "brainiac" table is this.
- High School Musical, High School Musical, Kelsi Nielsen: She had to hidden under hats and glasses (which she doesn't even need), and she's still very attractive.
- iCarly, iCarly, Freddie Benson
- Final Fantasy VII: Every female scientist in the franchise.
- The Spectacular Spider-Man: Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy
- Sky High (2005): Sue Tenny/Gwen Grayson in her first childhood
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 6:06:36 AM
^^ I agree with what Adept says. I mentioned on ATT a few days day that redirecting Evil Albino and Heroic Albino to the completely different Albinos Are Freaks (which comes out from another TRS, by the way) has the unintended effect of encouraging some tropers to (1) use Evil Albino and/or Heroic Albino in trope lists in the same definition before those tropes were redirected, or (2) be misled that Albinos Are Freaks is the new name of those two tropes.
What I think is when an idea is decided to not be a trope (or even an disambig page), it should not be allowed to be bluelinked.
Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think there actually was discussion regarding cutting Heroic Albino and Evil Albino, but I don't remember which thread that was in since both were handled separately (and I wasn't a mod at the time).
Either way, discussion regarding those two would probably be better suited to either the meta thread or the redirect thread than this thread.
As for the Hollywood Geek redirect, which doesn't have nearly as many inbounds as Heroic Albino and Evil Albino, I don't know who declined the cut request, but maybe that would be something I or another mod who frequents TRS could ask the other mods about.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 2nd 2021 at 11:40:14 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
There were over 1500 wicks when I started and it's now down to 1444. So slow, but moving.
There's at least one wick on Emo Teen that I can't remove because that page is under administrative lock, so going to need an admin to get that one when they can
Edited by amathieu13 on Dec 10th 2021 at 9:09:38 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Same with Geek, re: Administrative Lock
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
It looks like those two were already taken care of.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Bumping due to inactivity. I know we only got wick cleaning left to do, but I wanna know if it's progressing smoothly.
Edited by JHD on Feb 6th 2022 at 12:53:40 PM
i've put my wick cleaning on hold while i deal with the Bald Of Awesome change which i'm doing virtually alone lol. idk if others have been cleaning
I was just looking at the inactive cleanups yesterday. I'm chipping away at Badass Beard and Badass Mustache, and was thinking of doing this one after that.
There isn't much going on here. The page has been disambiguated, links still need to be sorted, and the thread has been inactive for about 2 months. Should we close it to make room for other projects?
Edited by AoeAbility on Apr 4th 2022 at 10:53:22 AM
You keep using the term "POV". I do not think it means what you think it means.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Depends on how wick cleaning is going. I personally don't like the idea of closing a thread before wick cleaning is done because it discourages wick cleaning—as with what happened with Those Two Bad Guys.
Perhaps you could assist with wick cleaning if you want this thread closed?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, projects that get closed before the cleaning is done never actually get clean. Hell, don't even need to look at Those Two Guys- look at how many wicks Foe Yay ended up with because nobody cleaned it after disambiging.
We have to do the work here.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessWelp, already started some minor effort, but it's over 1000 wicks. That seems like a bit much.
Also made an accidental ancient internet meme reference while I was at it
You keep using the term "POV". I do not think it means what you think it means.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
1,000 wicks is definitely a lot if you're new at doing wick cleaning, but a lot of projects we tackle here actually have several times that amount. You just gotta be patient and chip away at it.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I personally refuse to close a thread with unfinished wick cleanup unless there's a cleanup thread to defer the work to, such as how I closed the thread that merged "Funny Aneurysm" Moment with Harsher in Hindsight in favor of deferring the work to a preexisting thread due to said thread's experience with weeding out bad examples.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
As stated above in 2 separate posts, trope started with over 1500 wicks and I whittled it down some. I stopped working on this for now to deal with Bald Of Awesome (and some other shorter TRS projects) since thats a disambig + new trope replacement, rather than just a disambig.
It would be great if others joined the wick cleaning effort for this and I've posted about it before but no one seems too keen on joining so it'll just be on hold for a while until BOA gets sorted.
And i agree, its best to not close until wick cleaning is done to incentivize wick cleaning actually getting done.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I added a to-do list to the opening post and pinned it.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
there's a ghost wick of Hollywood Nerd on Live Action TV
(she/her)
I'll get it but as a reminder, you can request ghost wick fixes (the ones that only mods can fix) here
ugh i should just book mark that page. thanks again for the help and patience
(she/her)
Sorry I haven't been posting updates as I clean, but I just cleared out the YMMV namespace. 660 wicks left across 4 namespaces. From least wicks to most: Recap, Film, Series, Characters
Edited by amathieu13 on Jun 8th 2022 at 11:51:03 AM
(she/her)
Down to H of characters. 599 wicks to go.
Macron's notes
(she/her)
Down to O of Characters/. Under 500 wicks to go.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 11th 2022 at 7:55:48 AM
Macron's notes
Cleared Recap namespace and started on Film. Down to 400.
Crown Description:
What should be done to fix this page?
I'm going to start removing Hollywood Nerd from the descriptions of other tropes and from indices (the top section on the Related page)