My Little Pony: Cleanup Is Magic

So how's this?

• Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Twilight Sparkle was supposed to justified in forcing Rainbow Dash to teach cheerleading despite her disinterest as she was using the same Trickster Mentor methods that Princess Celestia has been successfully using since the first episode. But such methods were since seen by fans as discredited by Celestia's later-series fallibility and Discord's abusing them. Twilight was also seen as lacking the sort of experience to have fairly known it would work out despite Rainbow's legitimate reason to believe otherwise.

Thing is, is she supposed to be "sympathetic"? Twilight doesn't suffer anything, she just gives Rainbow the job and waits for it to work out. I don't think we're supposed to sympathize with anything because at no point is she shown to be in need of sympathy.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I thought sympathetic in this context simply meant the audience is supposed to side with Twilight, not necessarily that they literally should have sympathy for her.

Optimism is a duty.

I mean, that may be true, but it feels wrong given that the entire description goes on about why characters may not be sympathetic, not simply that the audience thinks they're in the wrong on something.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

That's why I felt Protagonist-Centered Morality and Informed Wrongness were more fitting as they cover the complaints without the issues with the UU entry (fans disliking Twilight but not explain why she was supposed to be sympathetic in context).

Alright, that works then.

Optimism is a duty.

Having wrote the original example myself. I do agree with PCM being the trope as PCM fits it more. Dash is seen as the antagonist of the episode similar to Grannies Gone Wild for caring about something besides what the episode wants her to care about. Should we therefore remove Unintentionally Sympathetic from Grannies gone wild too as RD was also seen as in the wrong in that episode and yet I feel Right for the Wrong Reasons fits it better as Rainbow is only following Applejack's advice without realizing the Gold Horseshoe Gals just wanted her to be herself and let the Grannies have fun? Or would Informed Wrongness fit better?

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.

The YMMV page for The Ending of the End, Part 2 has this Karmic Overkill entry regarding the villain trio's punishment:

• Karmic Overkill: Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow were supposed to have shown themselves so Beyond Redemption they deserved their Fate Worse than Death of being permanently turned to stone by the heroes. But their actions weren't seen as any worse than what Discord as Grogar was forcing them to partake in or their prior evildoing^note their attempt to kill the heroes didn't seem worse than the causalities Fridge Horror suggests their previous efforts would have caused, and Discord never made any effort to redeem the trio despite, unlike the uncontroversially killed off King Sombra, with them having enough Pet the Dog moments, it seemed like they might have if encouraged. This causes many fans to think it was unfair they got such worse than their existing punishments as they were forced into a position where it seems they would have been similarly punished even if they hadn't proven to be so irredeemably evil. Cozy Glow got this extra hard as she was already seen as this over all her prior evildoing^explanation many believed a child couldn't be so evil without mitigating backstory which character unfairly never questioned given they've made such effort and shown leniency to adult villains and had fewer major evildoings than Tirek and Chrysalis yet was identically punished.

I agree with the main points but I think this should be simplified as it has a lot of run-on sentences and some parts (e.g. "which character unfairly never questioned") have poor English. Also, the reason for Cozy being seen this way wasn't that fans couldn't buy a child being evil but that they felt her punishment was excessive due to her being a child and that other villains just as bad got off less harshly. I think I'd like to change it to:

• Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow were supposed to have proven themselves so Beyond Redemption they deserved their Fate Worse than Death of being permanently turned to stone by the heroes. But their actions weren't seen as any worse than their prior crimes or what Discord as Grogar was forcing them to do anyway, and Discord never made any effort to redeem the trio despite the fact that, unlike the uncontroversially killed off King Sombra, they had shown themselves to be capable of friendship to some extent and had numerous Pet the Dog moments. This caused many fans to think their punishment was unfair as they were forced into a position where it seems they would have been similarly punished even if they hadn't proven to be so irredeemably evil. Cozy Glow got this extra hard as she was already seen as this over her prior punishment, as many believed a child didn't deserve to be thrown in Tartarus when adult villains with comparable crimes were given greater leniency by the heroes, and she had committed fewer major crimes than Tirek and Chrysalis, yet was identically punished.

Edited by Javertshark13 on Sep 26th 2023 at 6:09:04 AM

Not just that the punishment was harsh, mind you, but also that Twilight and Celestia, who are usually all about second chances and redemption, basically go "well, you're beyond help, off to Tartarus you go". it was especially galling after the Pillars were introduced, whose aesop was explicitly about how that mode of problem solving was outdated and too brutal (especially Starswirl "just toss them into another dimension, problem solved" the Bearded).

Optimism is a duty.

Can I change the entry?

Yeah, I'd say go ahead. The grammar cleanup is definitely needed.

Heartwarming.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic Season 4 has spoiler tags dotted about, especially for both parts of the finale, despite the Spoilers Off policy for Moments pages. I doubt this will be the only season affected.

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her) (Current Focus: Cleaning Hell Is That Noise misuse)

Many Moments pages have that issue, I believe do to being Spoilers Off being a recent development.

We can just remove such spoiler markup whenever you come across it.

These were deleted from FanonDiscontinuity.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic citing FD "doesn't mean "contentious instalment", and Reflections and Root of the Problem are some of the most well-known comic arcs. Also, two of the bullets were bare-bones."

• The Reflections Arc for wasting its potential Mirror Universe conflict and its characters. Celestia's characterization (that she ask the Mane 6 to never let anypony know that this all took place helps). It was contentious, but more for wasted potential than it would be better if it never happed, and did get a significant amount of fan material so I'd agree it's not FD, but asking here.
• The "Cattle Rustlers" arc for Twilight's characterization. Definite FD for how horrifically OOC Twilight was, not even fix fics touch upon it, only issue is entry being stub. Not sure how to expand upon it in way that isn't redundant with Fan-Disliked Explanation for Twi's behavior.
• "Root of the Problem" for the Deer's characterization.^note See a pattern? Well known but widely criticized. The Deer as elves Ascended Fanon is it's one saving grace but not sure if fans accepted these specific deer or their story enough to not be FD, but I doubt they find it Worth It for these deer.

Thoughts about these entries?

Also and half relating, here are some possible The Scrappy entries:

• "Father Knows Beast": Sludge the dragon was supposed to be disliked for being a Lazy Bum who lied about being Spike's father to mooch off everyone and fleeing before suffering any consequences. But this became unintentional dislike due to making the heroes look bad for going along with his Blatant Lies and unpleasantries as much and long as they did, particularly Spike accusing Twilight of being jealous of Sludge being a better parent. Worse, Spike's origins have been long awaited by fans so that he was lying about it made the episode and what he put everyone though pointless, the lesson redundant with the similarly disliked "Dragon Quest", and meant it was never answered by the series end. While the series other jerks and minor villains have at least some Love to Hate or Draco in Leather Pants fans, Sludge has none do to contributing nothing but an infuriating Writer Cop Out.
• "Root of the Problem": King Aspen had all the traits disliked about the deer (being less likable and causing more harm than the villains yet no-one getting word against them) while lacking the mitigating traits of the other major deer characters (his son Bramble's excuse of being a child, Blackthorn lacking their racism and being competent). Aspen also failed in his portrayal as a respectable leader as he didn't stop attacks on ponies even after leaning they weren't responsible and it was preventing the Princesses from helping him, the villains being so easily defeated it seems as though he never made a real effort to, and surrendering when his son's hostage takers could have been easily overpowered with his subsequent humiliation being seen as the arcs (unintentional) highlight. The writers seen to recognize how disliked Aspen was and pushed him aside to the point his few speaking roles lampshaded his new unimportance.

FD is for when the fanbase dislikes an installment enough that the majority or more decides to act like it doesn't exist, right? In that case Reflections and Cattle Rustlers would definitely count insofar as most people just ignore them. Root of the Problem... I also want to say counts? You see the deer referenced now and again, but it's also something that most people just don't seem to acknowledge.

I don't think that Sludge is an example of a Scrappy. A Scrappy is a character that's supposed to be liked but is despised; perhaps the fandom hates Sludge for slightly different reasons than they were supposed to, but at the end of the day he's a Hate Sink who is hated as intended. Also, most of the entry talks about the fans disliking the episode itself, its story, and the behavior of other characters, which, while accurate, isn't really about their reaction to Sludge.

King Aspen fits, though. He's meant to be a wise, respected elf king sort of figure; it's clear that the reader is supposed to think that he's a good guy that the heroes should admire. However, he just comes across as arrogant, condescending, and disproportionate, so nobody really likes him. That said, I would mention the role he's supposed to play, and rewrite things a little to focus more on the fans reacting to him and less on picking apart his in-universe behavior, if that makes sense. Less "he's a bad person because so-and-so" and more "the fandom found him grating because such-and-such", if that makes sense.

What episodes are those arcs from?

Optimism is a duty.

Sludge is from "Father Knows Beast", the rest are from the comics — "Reflections", "The Good, the Bad and the Ponies", "Root of the Problem".

Oh, I see, could you clarify that in the examples? Not all fans read the comics. Also, the comics are already considered fandom discontinuity in general by the fandom, and by the show itself. Can they be considered FD if they are not treated as canon by the show in the first place?

Optimism is a duty.

I'd put them in the appropriate places to clarify where they're from. And they're FD despite the comics overall being FD because even otherwise fans/accepting of the comics reject them.

That is the biggest negative audience reaction to Aspen, that he killed the previously popular deer as elves fanon, as their later appearances have been as ignored as any unpopular issue and rather than fans fixing/replacing them with more likable deer they've by and large just dropped the idea from fandom.

Memes.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic Character Memes has this little bit of bad indentation with a side order of Fan Myopia:

---

• [X] IS BEST PONY ^explanation A common way of expressing one's favor for a particular character. The omission of the word "the" is intentional. However, often used when [X] isn't a pony at all (like Spike or Gilda), or is a character from a completely different work (like Magneto) which still isn't a pony.
  • "Silly anon, that's not how you spell 'Pinkie Pie!'" ^explanation Fans naming other ponies as their favorite character tend to attract image macros with this phrase, though there's at least one version where Pinkie admits Fluttershy is her favorite, too.
    • Another response is "You misspelled Fluttershy."

---

The Fluttershy example is basically The Same, but More Specific than the one above it. The Pinkie Pie one is admittedly questionable but could be salvaged with proper indentation. This third-bullet situation, however, is just excessive.

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her) (Current Focus: Cleaning Hell Is That Noise misuse)

I think the Pinkie Pie one can stay and the Fluttershy one can be cut as natter.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Speaking of memes there are some dubious entries on Equestria Girl pages:

My Little Pony Equestria Girls A Fine Line:

• Memetic Mutation: Fluttershy's Revenge immediately caught on for how random and hilariously OOC it is.
  The link has 16 images tagged that, that's not really catching on at all. It's not used enough to classify as a meme.

My Little Pony: Equestria Girls – Friendship Games Shorts:

• Memetic Mutation: After the first pre-release short ("The Science of Magic") was released, an image of Sunset Shimmer putting on a rubber glove while Applejack looks dubious became a popular captioned image, as seen here. Most are jokes about proctology.
  This so called meme has even less images, only 6.

Ponyville goes to the...dragons??:

• Memetic Mutation: SPIKE! YOU JUST FIRE MAILED A MEMBER OF THE ROYAL GUARD!! ^Explanation During the fight scene between the dragons and the Canterlot Royal guard, Spike attempts to help Spyro and the others out, only to be pinned down by one of the royal guard. Being far too weak to escape, Spike does the only other thing he can think of. He builds up his flame, and lets it go in a mighty burst... which ends up fire mailing the royal guard to Celestia. Twilight reacts with the memetic worthy line, which many consider to be the single funniest line in the entire fic.
  This is technically a fanfic but googling it I could not find anyone who ever used it as a meme.

Cut them then.

Two major cleanups regarding Aesops (which this series has a lot of):

• An Aesop: It's now a definition only super trope, so all examples are to be cut or moved to sub/replacement tropes (many were interpretations rather than outright intended).
• "Lesson of the Day" Speech: It's a sub-trope for when the Aesop is outright stated by the work, which happens a lot here (here's the list of them).
• Broken Aesop: Now allows examples that contradict prior/later episodes (I'd still say those should go under the series wide page rather than the individual episodes). Also it will be eventually be made YMMV, but not ready to move there yet.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jan 10th 2024 at 5:29:00 AM

I think these examples on Radar.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic are a bit dubious:

• In "Putting Your Hoof Down" Fluttershy holds up one of her hooves as she tells off her friends, giving the impression that she's flipping them off. I think that was more akin to fist-shaking.
  • "You want 'do anything to her and she won't complain' Fluttershy!" If it's fridge, I don't think it counts.
  • Fluttershy's rant against Rarity and Pinkie Pie ends in her saying that nopony gives a “flying feather” about their interests. "Give a flying X" is a common form for exclamations, and needn't involve profanity.
• In "A Canterlot Wedding", Twilight tries to remind Cadance of who she is by doing their dance from her childhood, which involves shaking her butt. This of course is used as an excuse to have Twilight happily shaking her butt and presenting at the camera. Shaking the Rump is not necessarily sexual, and they were shaking their whole bodies.
• In "Pinkie Pride", Cheese Sandwich says to a female lookalike "Hey good lookin', want some mayonnaise?". While he does actually bring out a jar of mayonnaise from hammerspace, it's an awfully strange pairing of a compliment on looks and a question to be innocent. I don't understand how it's dirty. Is it saying the mayo looks like semen?
• "Filli Vanilli" sees Big Mac, while singing, sweating profusely and staring directly at Fluttershy (who's singing for him since he lost his voice) just out the window. Fluttershy at that moment is getting into the rhythm by intensely shaking her rear. This is likely because they're singing in a classroom in front of a bunch of foals. Wait, is this example suggesting they're pedophiles?
• In "Hearthbreakers", the Pie family are revealed to have an enormous rock named "Holder's Boulder". An "over-the-shoulder boulder-holder" is slang for a well-endowed woman's bra. Most likely just a coincidence.
• "No Second Prances" has Trixie doing an escape trick involving being eaten by a Manticore and then teleporting out. She however can't teleport herself, but Starlight is able to. Naturally, drama unfolds right before the trick, and so Starlight doesn't want to help, but a crying Trixie does it anyways while clearly indicating that if Starlight doesn't help, she'd like to die from it. Starlight of course does come around in time, after Trixie has merely suffered a change to her normal outfit, but torn up. Didn't Word of God say she wasn't suicidal?
• Mudbriar, introduced in "The Maud Couple" seems fairly innocent as a Sheldon Cooper expy, but his particular main area of interest is sticks, very specifically sticks, not even just branches (which would fit more with Maud's being rocks, not pebbles or such)...he's (like his cutie mark) a stick in the mud...or...a stick in the Maud, and Maud's the one (other than him) character who would likely be described as "having a stick up their ass"..and his name is basically "mud thorn". Yep, his whole concept is an innuendo.
  • And later, the one time we see him doing much at all, which makes Maud excited, it's because he was hard as a rock (petrified)... Both seem like Accidental Innuendo, and even then, I'd say they were stretches.

For every low there is a high.

I agree with all your takes, yeah.

...But yeah I think the mayo thing was definitely taken as "white substance = semen". And in a way I can see it being an Accidental Innuendo since I get weird vibes from it.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 11th 2024 at 8:13:01 AM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness