Condemned by History cleanup thread

Adding The Fox's votes:

• Unanimous Keep:
  • Creed: High Crate, Laptop, From The Words, Fox
  • Limp Bizkit: High Crate, Laptop, From The Words, Fox
  • Nickelback: High Crate, Laptop, From The Words, Fox
  • Puddle of Mudd: High Crate, Laptop, Tyler, From The Words, Fox
• Leaning Toward Cut:
  • Emerson, Lake, & Palmer:
    • Fence: High Crate, Xtifr
    • Cut: Laptop, From The Words
  • Evanescence:
    • Fence: High Crate
    • Cut: Spino, Laptop, From The Words, Fox
  • Hoobastank:
    • Fence: High Crate, Laptop
    • Cut: Spino, From The Words, Fox
  • Saliva:
    • Fence: Laptop
    • Cut: High Crate, From The Words
• Leaning Toward Keep:
  • Smash Mouth:
    • Keep: High Crate, From The Words, Fox
    • Fence: Spino, Laptop
  • Sugar Ray:
    • Keep: From The Words
    • Fence: High Crate, Laptop, Spino, Fox
  • Tokio Hotel:
    • Keep: From The Words
    • Fence: High Crate, Laptop
• Split Decision:
  • As I Lay Dying:
    • Keep: Laptop, The Fox
    • Cut: High Crate, From The Words
  • Buckcherry:
    • Keep: Laptop
    • Cut: High Crate, From The Words
  • Drowning Pool:
    • Keep: Laptop, Tyler
    • Cut: High Crate, From The Words, Fox
  • Hinder:
    • Keep: Laptop, From The Words, Fox
    • Cut: High Crate
  • Hootie and the Blowfish:
    • Keep: Xtifr
    • Fence: High Crate
    • Cut: Spino, Laptop, From The Words, Fox
  • The Knack:
    • Keep: Laptop
    • Cut: High Crate, From The Words
  • Lostprophets:
    • Keep: Laptop, Spino, From The Words, Fox
    • Cut: High Crate

Cutting the "leaning towards cut" category. I'll give it another day before moving on to cutting the Split Decisions that have three or more "cut" votes.

edited 7th Sep '16 11:01:00 AM by HighCrate

A few notes I'd like to point out.

• I don't understand why people would want to keep Natalia Kills but cut Ten Walls. Both were relatively unknown musicians who are only known to the mainstream for their inflammatory remarks than brought them down. Or why people would want to keep Natalia but cut her husband who was in the exact same position on X Factor.
• Hoobastank may have been a one-hit wonder on pop, but they had quite a few other hits on rock radio, like "Crawling in the Dark", "Running Away", "Same Direction", and "Out of Control". Also, they were used as a punchline in the 2011 horror-comedy film Detention.

I switch my vote to Cut for the Knack. After thinking it over, I decided that since My Sharona is still one of the 70s most iconic songs, they can stay. I'm still on the fence with Buckcherry as I feel they're relatively recent.

edited 7th Sep '16 11:03:17 AM by LaptopGuy

A handful of genre-radio hits may make Hoobastank more than a One-Hit Wonder, but I don't know if it qualifies them as inescapably popular the way DtD requires. As I recall they were always sort of B-tier compared to the most popular acts of the day.

You're right. Cut Hoobastank. They're just a flash-in-the-pan band with a mocked name like Chumbawamba.

I'm changing my Smash Mouth vote to keep & (not that it matters anymore) voting keep on all the unanimous keeps.

edited 7th Sep '16 11:53:21 AM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Pitching in from the peanut gallery on post 351:
- Keep: Creed, Limp Bizkit, Nickelback, Puddle of Mudd, Hinder, Lostprophets
- Cut: ELP, Evanescence, Hoobastank, Saliva, Buckcherry, Drowning Pool, Hootie and the Blowfish
- Fence: Smash Mouth (leaning toward keep), Sugar Ray (leaning toward cut)
- No opinion due to ignorance: Tokio Hotel, As I Lay Dying, The Knack

edited 7th Sep '16 11:19:11 AM by Willbyr

Hinder has my keep vote as well.

DeaderThanDisco.Rock Music updated votes:

• Unanimous Keep:
  • Creed: High Crate, Laptop, From The Words, Fox, Spino, Willbyr
  • Limp Bizkit: High Crate, Laptop, From The Words, Fox, Spino, Willbyr
  • Nickelback: High Crate, Laptop, From The Words, Fox, Spino, Willbyr
  • Puddle of Mudd: High Crate, Laptop, Tyler, From The Words, Fox, Spino, Willbyr
• Leaning Toward Keep:
  • Hinder:
    • Keep: Laptop, From The Words, Fox, Willbyr
    • Cut: High Crate
  • Lostprophets:
    • Keep: Laptop, Spino, From The Words, Fox, Willbyr
    • Cut: High Crate
  • Smash Mouth:
    • Keep: High Crate, From The Words, Fox, Spino
    • Fence: Laptop, Willbyr
• Split Decision:
  • As I Lay Dying:
    • Keep: Laptop, The Fox
    • Cut: High Crate, From The Words
  • Sugar Ray:
    • Keep: From The Words
    • Fence: Laptop, Spino, Fox, Willbyr
    • Cut: High Crate
  • Tokio Hotel:
    • Keep: From The Words
    • Fence: Laptop
    • Cut: High Crate

I've cut Buckcherry, Drowning Pool, Hootie and the Blowfish, and The Knack. All of them have at least three "cut" votes and the cuts outnumber the keeps by a margin of at least two.

Changing my vote from "Fence" to "Cut" on Sugar Ray and Tokio Hotel and moved them to Split Decision. I believe in "when in doubt, cut" as a measure to curb misuse, and these both have only one voice in favor of keeping and a lot of fencers. Someone's going to have to hop off the fence and, absent a compelling argument in favor of keep, I'm coming down on the cut side.

I've moved "Hinder" and "Lostprophets" from "Split Decision" to "Leaning Toward Keep" because they only have one voice for cutting. That voice is, namely, me, and I don't see myself changing my mind on either of those— they just plain were not as inescapably popular in their heyday as DtD requires— but Captain America quotes about telling the whole world "no, you move" aside, I'm not going to be the guy holding up the process on those forever. Just a little longer in case someone comes along and agrees with me. (-:

The Unanimous Keeps list is looking really stable, but a lot of their entries are incredibly long. I think the next order of business is to start writing streamlined entries for them and posting them here for discussion and ultimately consensus before swapping them out.

edited 8th Sep '16 8:30:21 AM by HighCrate

Starting that process: Creed.

• Creed was arguably the biggest band in the world around the turn of the 21st century, reaching their peak with their sophomore album Human Clay in 1999, which went Diamond. However, between frontman Scott Stapp's on- and off-stage antics and Signature Songs "With Arms Wide Open" and "Higher" being played on a seemingly infinite loop on the radio, a backlash formed from which the band would never recover despite breakups, reunions, and followup albums. Today Creed remains one of the biggest pariahs of the music world, being voted as the worst band of the '90s by the readers of Rolling Stone in 2013 by such an overwhelming margin that the editors said the competition "wasn't even close" between Creed and second-place Nickelback. Today, it is a social taboo to admit to being a Creed fan or even admitting to owning one of their albums during their Glory Days, the general consensus on them being that they were a poor man's ripoff of Pearl Jam with an obnoxious frontman (both on and off the stage). An article where the author went to Creed and Nickelback's New York concerts the same night, notes how "people who talk about Creed want to position themselves as distanced from what Creed is alleged to represent".

How's that look? Tried to keep the most relevant details without giving a history of every up and down (more of the latter than the former) that the band ever had.

I'd argue that Hinder was inescapable back in the day. Don't you remember "Lips of an Angel"?

I think the entries are fine. Maybe not super-long essays, but I think two to three paragraphs for each bands is doable.

I'm getting off the fence & changing my Sugar Ray vote to cut.

I just added "Bodies" to the DTD subpage. Did we get a consensus about that song being Overshadowed by Controversy?

I haven't seen anyone dispute it.

I legit do not remember "Lips of an Angel." If I'm honestly the only one, then I'll take it on faith and we'll move on.

For convenience, posting Tyler's proposed "Bodies" entry here:

• Drowning Pool's debut single "Bodies" was a big hit on rock radio, peaking at #6 on Active Rock and #12 on Alternative. The song proved to be hugely memetic, being featured in countless TV shows, movies, video games, and commercials. However, the song is now best remembered for its overuse in AMV's, and the controversy surrounding its chorus "Let the bodies hit the floor".

I'd add a bit more detail about the controversy mentioned in the last sentence.

Here's what I just added:

• The song was repeatedly played as torture at Guantanamo Bay. In 2003, a teenager shot his parents dead while listening to "Bodies". And in 2011, Jared Loughner had favorited the song on YouTube before going on a mass shooting in Tucson, Arizona. While Drowning Pool themselves condemned the Tucson shooting, their chart success quickly slid down the drain until their 2016 album Hellelujah completely missed the Billboard 200.

edited 8th Sep '16 4:11:43 PM by AreYouTyler

I feel like that gives waaaaaaaaaaay too much credibility to the Hitler Ate Sugar aspect of it. "He favorited this song" sounds like the leaps in logic people make to blame video games for mass-shootings, but the entry treats it as legitimate.

Here's a proposal: the term "bricked", describing Deader Than Disco digital devices that the maker/copyright holder has disabled. A risk for any adopter of a device the public has moved away from. Discussed in the article titled "The time that Tony Fadell sold me a container of hummus." The author bought a home automation system from a company bought by Google. Sales fell and then Google disabled the software rendering the device inert. The hardware is the size of a container of hummus hence the title. Discussed in dept in Tyger's Channel Awesome youtube video: "MUD2MMO: "Bricked" Could this be in gaming's future? "

I want your feedback, but I have to go to work. So if you guys can get a few more examples I'll work on an entry when I get back from work.

edited 9th Sep '16 6:14:47 AM by TairaMai

I have no idea what you're proposing.

Are you saying the term bricked is Deader Than Disco? Or companies bricking devices? Because both of those are not even remotely true.

Or are you saying that bricking renders the device Deader Than Disco?

edited 9th Sep '16 9:30:47 AM by Larkmarn

But Deader Than Disco is supposed to be documenting whether people turned against something, not if their reasons for doing so make sense.

edited 9th Sep '16 11:48:55 AM by nrjxll

Okay, here's a new source saying that the band was devastated to have inspired the mass shooting. It was the only video that Loughner uploaded, and it depicted him burning the American flag.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/473682/drowning-pool-devastated-arizona-killer-played-its-bodies-song

Okay, now that I had supper and have come down from my sugar high:

"Bricked" is when a program or electronic device stops working due to loss of support, as in the device is best used as an actual brick because it stopped working. Software can fall victim to software rot because there is no support and the program stops working correctly.

• Some devices find new life after "bricking" thanks to the DIY/hacker community. the CueCat and the 3com Audrey became popular with hackers after their makers went under and the devices no longer worked.
• Discussed in the article titled "The time that Tony Fadell sold me a container of hummus." The author bought a home automation system from a company that was in turn bought by Google. Sales fell and the company fell victim to this trope. Google promptly disabled the software rendering the device inert. The hardware is the size of a empty container of hummus hence the title.
• in Tyger's Channel Awesome youtube video: "MUD2MMO: "Bricked" Could this be in gaming's future? " Tyger looks at the Unfortunate Implications of Deader Than Disco and Money, Dear Boy: some companies are now disabling games, devices or software because it's Deader Than Disco, an Old Shame or just to shill the new version. Now some companies or creators are disabling devices, games and software to the extent that no one can use them again, instead of Abandon Ware, "bricking" cause the device or software to go from Deader Than Disco to Lost Forever.

edited 9th Sep '16 8:52:34 PM by TairaMai

It's a different concept than Deader Than Disco, as it's about whether something works or not, which isn't related to popularity by itself.

Before, Deader Than Disco software or devices had a chance, there is always someone who likes it or wants to tinker with it. Even the Trope Namer had a comeback. Now companies and creators are trying to fix it so that no one can even work with the software or device. In some cases even if it's popular, the rightholder just declares it Deader Than Disco and "bricks" it. In some cases even if it's still popular. That's the point of the article.

From the article (Trope Pot Hole is mine, the rest is from the article):

And the Youtube video discusses the impact this has to fans. That games could be "turned off" forever, even if they become popular. But in fairness, some MMO's are hard to run without a server and for those games Deader Than Disco can become Lost Forever because no one can afford to run servers for them.

edited 10th Sep '16 10:10:40 AM by TairaMai