Misused: Ms Fanservice

Any example on Ms. Fanservice should be considered for moving to one of its more specific sub/sister tropes, such as that one, as well as the criteria mentioned about. If it's already on one of those subtropes, I'd think about culling it from Ms. Fanservice.

Reluctance and innocence do not contradict being Ms. Fanservice because those are ways to bring attention to it. I think the thing is if she doesn't look like The Tease then she doesn't count.

What I meant by the practicality of clothing is how much attention it calls to itself. A tank top in Hawaii makes sense, in Alaska it does not. You'll notice Ms. Fanservice tends to stand out exactly because of what she chooses to wear compared to everyone else.

I'm not sure I buy this. Most people would probably consider the aforementioned Seven of Nine an example, for instance, but personality-wise she was The Spock.

But that can't be trusted. For example, Grand Theft Auto V takes place in a summery Expy of Los Angeles. There are numerous random women dressed in skimpy clothing throughout the city. Even considering that, though, Tracey de Santa◊ is still considered to be the Queen of Fanservice◊.

We really shouldn't complicate the trope unnecessarily—especially with criteria which needn't be met.

edited 25th Nov '13 2:52:57 AM by KingZeal

I think it's pretty intuitive.

A character used for fanservice more often than other characters, through costume, personality, or the situations they are put into. And whatever that means for the series.

Depending on the overall rating (PG - R, E - M, Y7 - NC-17) and the world/setting of the series, what the baseline tameness/raunchiness of the show is, and how much the character exceeds it by can vary greatly.

It'll be hard to come up with a list of 'shows x amount of skin, at least x % of the time' or 'flirts with x amount of characters' or 'has x amount of sex scenes' or 'has x amount of Male Gaze camera shots directed at her' because of that

edited 25th Nov '13 3:20:29 AM by acrobox

It's just a guideline and not a hard-and-fast rule that has to apply to every single character. That sub point is just a reference point to what "provocative" means. In any case I didn't make that list thinking every character has to check off each bullet point and sub-point within. The trope is flexible enough that sometimes the one girl sporting just a little cleavage may count, and we have personality types ranging from flagrantly flirty to an almost professional indifference.

edited 25th Nov '13 9:42:20 AM by KJMackley

I'm beginning to wonder how many female characters there are out there, especially in modern visual works, who would not fall under Ms. Fanservice as defined by some of the suggestions in this thread.

My guess is "a minority."

At first, I was against changing the guidelines (I still the current guidelines insofar as what sorta fanservice tropes can be used for Ms. Fanservice and Ms. Fanservice), but I now realize that we can still address said fanservice tropes without exactly calling them Ms. Fanservice if it doesn't satisfy the new guidelines.

For example, Weiss Schnee from RWBY. Shes Got Legs, and they are pretty nice legs indeed, but that alone doesn't mean she's Ms. Fanservice, because that's just one fanservice trope associated with her, whereas Yang Xiao Long and Pyrrha Nikos (from the same series) have more fanservice tropes attached to them. You get what I mean?

edited 26th Nov '13 1:40:02 AM by Serocco

In my mind, it's all about how much Fanservice she provides relative to other characters. If it's a borderline porno movie, the woman in the skimpy bikini isn't a Ms. Fanservice. If it's a PG-rated movie, the girl in the modest one-piece can be Ms. Fanservice.

I think part of the issue is that, as usual, people let Fetish Fuel dictate their entries. "Well, I find her really hot. She's a Ms. Fanservice!"

This. So much.

edited 26th Nov '13 10:30:12 AM by dRoy

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but the way and disagree have made me think....

Perhaps the page should be Fanservice Character, with Mr and Ms as redirects, and the page itself be an exampleless definition page, allowing examples on work pages.

I can't disagree that the number of fanservice tropes play a part, but the number of tropes varies based on the work as well as the characters within the work. Harem Genre works especially confuse the issue, where (ideally) each girl is a different type of Ms. Fanservice.

There will never be a perfect checklist for this, and I doubt how effective the guidelines will be. So I suggest we restrict examples to the work pages only, and leave the definition page blank.

Eh...maybe, but I still think we need to narrow the definition a little. Not to the extent some people are suggesting, but enough so that we don't just have a bunch of "I find this girl hot" examples.

For instance, part of what started this is that all four of the main girls of RWBY are listed as Ms. Fanservice, and we realized that the definition was broad enough to cover all of them. However, the general consensus among the fanbase is that Yang is the Ms. Fanservice of the show. The other girls have their sexy outfits and everything, but she gets the most, and the camera loves her.

edited 26th Nov '13 12:55:53 PM by Discar

So that gives us distinct tropes.

I think we should keep in gender split, though. Mr. Fanservice and Ms. Fanservice are not mutually exclusive and can be in the same work. Fetish Fanservicers (just throwing that out) would be an ensemble that each covers a specific fetish, and thus are fanservice characters to whomever is attracted to each fetish.

However, a Fetish Fanservicers are NOT a Ms/Mr. Fanservice character and are, in fact, mutually exclusive because there are numerous characters that providing fanservice, and thus strip the Mr./Ms. title of all meaning..

edited 26th Nov '13 1:02:10 PM by KingZeal

I like that, sort of a Ms. Fanservice meets Betty and Veronica, only instead of the Uptown Girl and the Girl Next Door, it's the Tsundere, the Dojikko, the Token Mini-Moe, etc.

I'm not sure Fetish Fanservicers is the clearest name one for the other one. That sounds like it's about BDSM or something kinky.

Maybe Ms. Fanservice / Mr. Fanservice vs. Fanservice Ensemble. In one you have one character providing the majority of the fanservice. In the other the role is split among a number of characters to varying degrees.

edited 26th Nov '13 1:14:43 PM by shimaspawn

Anyhow, I disagree with merging the two pages. It really sounds like too much work and too little payoff.

@41 - Perhaps. I think the ensemble aspect is tropable, but also expect it to turn into "Hot Cast".

@42 - The work is "Write a definition, change previous pages to redirects.", I wouldn't've suggested merging without the cut on the trope page at least.

Merging what two pages? I don't think anyone's suggesting that.

crazysamaritan's post @37 is what I am referring to.

Yeah, that's a dumb idea and it'll just end up a shoehorned mess of 'anyone I think is hot.'

How many fanservice tropes does a character need in order to be considered Ms. Fanservice?

edited 26th Nov '13 2:57:12 PM by Serocco

It already is.

That only means that either the shoehorning or the article have to go, though.

Number of fanservice tropes is irrelevant. They could have just one, but if 90% of the fanservice in the show comes from that one trope of that one character, then she's Ms. Fanservice.

edited 26th Nov '13 3:12:03 PM by shimaspawn