The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

Correct.

We might want to ultimately also make a Design By Fanservice trope that's just a general trope for fanservicy costumes rather than trying to trope every aspect someone finds sexy. It should be high enough level that we'll get fewer ZC Es and more descriptions.

edited 24th Aug '15 9:53:37 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

That would need some consideration, I think. A Missing Supertrope (for tropes like Zettai Ryouiki etc) might be useful, but I would suggest to make it example-less — or it might attract misuse the same way Stripperriffic does (I'll make a TRS for that once we clear up that forum). We don't need it to turn into a pothole for "any costume This Troper considers to be sexy", do we?

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And DWLC isn't "troping something someone finds sexy". It's about when creators use visual references to sexually charged imagery ^note (visual references to BDSM dominatrix outfits) to convey a narrative meaning ^note (dominant "bad" woman) in non-sex-related works.

edited 24th Aug '15 10:08:40 AM by Rjinswand

Why not repurpose the Fanservice Costumes index for "Design by Fanservice" (... WTH is this phrase supposed to mean, anyway?) by turning it into a supertrope? Though I'd suggest renaming it to Costume Fanservice instead, because "fanservice using clothing" (which would include tropes like Clothing Damage and Action Dress Rip) is more inclusive than "clothing designed for fanservice" (which would not include either of the aforementioned).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

"Ways to create fanservice by using clothes" actually could be a good way to go about this. That way it would maybe have less chance of attracting "pothole for clothes I find sexy" misuse, because it'd be more difficult to misinterpret it as "any sexy clothes".

edited 24th Aug '15 1:41:39 PM by Rjinswand

And while we're at it, we could also create another sub-supertrope for Physique Fanservice, for "fanservice using the body itself, or parts thereof", of which Partial Nudity Tropes and Nudity Tropes form only two types out of several.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Nudity =/= Physique. Nudity is the amount of skin uncovered, while a sexy physique can be shown in a full-body-covering catsuit.

That said, I think the nudity part is already covered by the Nudity and Partial Nudity indexes you've mentioned. As for "physique used for fanservice", it could work, but would there be enough tropes for that index?

edited 25th Aug '15 2:13:30 AM by Rjinswand

Nudity = Revealing the Physique that's usually covered up under clothing.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

That is correct.

... So what's the problem? It's still "fanservice using the physique".

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Those are just different things: the first one is uncovering the body, the second one is using the body itself. E.g., breasts. The first one would be cleavage or sideboob, the second one would be big breasts outlined by a tight sweater.

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Anyway, as interesting as it is to talk about breasts, I feel this discussion is going nowhere — unless we talk about how specific tropes would fit under those indexes. It's all hypothetical otherwise.

edited 25th Aug '15 1:11:34 PM by Rjinswand

OK, then I think we need something to cover both of those types, even though I think Physique Fanservice does a good job of that (perhaps I'm the one who isn't good at phrasing what he thinks about, of course). But that can be discussed later.

On a different note, I'd like to submit a recommendation for adding Combat Stilettos to the to-do list, because I've begun to notice that it keeps getting misapplied to cases where the female character is not an Action Girl fighting in high heels per se, but still is in a heart-pumping action situation and does a lot of running in high heels in spite of how unrealistic that is (example: Jurassic World's Claire Dearing, who is an Action Survivor rather than an Action Girl; in her case, she manages to outrun a Tyrannosaurus rex^note Clocked at 40 mph in-universe, though it probably wasn't going at full speed just yet. Still, the damn thing has a huge stride. while luring it after her with a flare in her hand in order to get it to attack the Big Bad in the finale out of territorial instinct). The misuse seems tropable to me, FWIW.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I always thought Combat Stilettos was for stilettos that were literally used as weapons.

Also, I'm going to say right now that I don't think creating multiple fanservice indexes is a good idea at all.

Supetropes. We're proposing the creation of fanservice supertropes, not indices.

And heels literally used as weapons falls under Armed Legs.

edited 25th Aug '15 9:48:12 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

"On a different note, I'd like to submit a recommendation for adding Combat Stilettos to the to-do list, because I've begun to notice that it keeps getting misapplied to cases where the female character is not an Action Girl fighting in high heels per se, but still is in a heart-pumping action situation and does a lot of running in high heels in spite of how unrealistic that is (example: Jurassic World's Claire Dearing, who is an Action Survivor rather than an Action Girl; in her case, she manages to outrun a Tyrannosaurus rexnote while luring it after her with a flare in her hand in order to get it to attack the Big Bad in the finale out of territorial instinct). The misuse seems tropable to me, FWIW. "

Looks like we have a Missing Super Trope for high heels not impeding movement. Sounds like a good ykttw to me.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

To be honest, I'm not convinced that such a supertrope is a necessity. Especially when, at least from what I've seen, there's a problem withFanservice often getting misused for "any element of sex appeal in any context whatsoever", instead of "a sexual or erotic element in a work otherwise devoid of that kind of content, inserted to get fans' attention".

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Yeah, Combat Stilettos is not a very clear name, but at least it's kind of on the point. I think the kind of misuse you mentioned doesn't need a Super-Trope, but could be just included into Combat Stilettos, by broadening the trope. After all, it's still about women wearing high heels when they would be impractical. Though I'm not sure the Jurassic World example fits, since it seems like impracticality was intentional and supposed to add tension.

That said, there's a different kind of misuse in that trope's example list: examples of women wearing heels in context when practicality isn't an issue. E.g. mages who don't specialize in melee combat and thus could afford less practical-looking costumes. Examples:

• Star Sapphire from Green Lantern. Even the example points out that it's not an issue for her.
• Scarlet Witch. She's a magic user, not a brawler.
• She-Hulk. I don't think She-Hulk's costume ever included high heels. Maybe in the 90s? I remember her wearing high heels to civilian occasions, but that's not this trope.
• I've never read Tarot, but isn't she a witch (a magic user)? Bonus points for the aforementioned kind of misuse of Fanservice.
• Runaways even points out it's a non-example. And Nico's a magic user, anyway.
• Final Fantasy Tactics Advance: Again, a mage.
• Final Fantasy X: Lulu is a mage.
• Final Fantasy IV: Rydia is a mage.
• Guild Wars: Again, mages.
• Winx Club: The example itself mentions that they usually fly.

edited 26th Aug '15 3:17:38 AM by Rjinswand

Except that she doesn't show any signs of her mobility being hampered by those high heels (not even when she's frantically running and/or searching for her missing nephews in the tropical jungle, where high heels are definitely at their most impractical) — even though the much-more-practically-dressed-for-the-situation male lead explicitly refers to them when he objects to her insistence that she keep looking for her nephews once it's clear that they'll have to go deeper into the densely-packed jungle than the car they came in with can carry them.^note Her response is to unbutton her coat, tie it at the front below her chest, and roll up her sleeves to the elbows, if you're curious. Notice her completely missing the main point of his objection (the high heels).

edited 26th Aug '15 4:05:05 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Ah, I see now. Yes, it does sound like a variation of this trope.

update post: Thigh High Boots is at 87 wicks

So I guess if heels are treated as not being a hindrance, would that be a sub trope of Rule of Glamorous?

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I would say yes, as far as High Heels No Problem is a trope. Which I think it is, whether we have it or not.

Check out my fanfiction!

I don't know, can't we just broaden Combat Stilettos? Maybe with a rename, something like Impractical High Heels?

edited 13th Sep '15 6:08:43 AM by Rjinswand

That name suggestions covers what they are in real life, when we need a name that covers what they do in fiction.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Agreed. Furthermore, Combat Stilettos are about combat. Anything that is not combat (or at the very least, "physically dangerous situation") cannot fit in the trope. If it was broadened to fit, then it would no longer be Combat Stilettos.

Fair enough. I guess YKTTW'ing a supertrope is the better way to go.

update post: Thigh-High Boots is at 59 wicks