The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

We don't cut trope pages just because the trope is about sexuality in some way.

^^^ Well Jesse from Pokemon is aggressive and wears thigh-high boots.

Not everyone who wears boots are going to fit a trope. Especially if it's a sexual trope and a children's work.

Jessie is probably more of a Zettai Ryouki case.

Again, what concerns me is the possibility that, in trying to avoid meaningless pages, we're making up tropes - that (in this specific case) thigh-high boots aren't normally meant to be anything more than part of a fanservicey costume and don't carry any specific connotations.

edited 25th Mar '14 7:05:28 PM by nrjxll

We aren't making it up. There's a reason hookers are often put in thigh-high boots—- they have the connotation of overt sexuality, with or without sexual aggression. But we also aren't going to scrap a real trope simply because it isn't universally applied.

edited 25th Mar '14 9:21:52 PM by Madrugada

#729 — Zettai Ryouiki does not imply certain personality traits. it's a trope about the exposed skin of the thighs. which would be the relevant context on whoever wear them. Grade S ZR is the only one that comes with a personality type.

maybe it's because it's a combination of Zettai Ryouiki and Hell-Bent for Leather or Dressed All in Rubber (all Fanservice Costumes tropes with varying sexual and aggressive connotations)?

As I understood it, the part of... that thing with the Z... that makes it tropeworthy is the whole culture that's sprung up around it. Otherwise it's just a meaningless costume feature.

Which, again, is my concern here: I agree that meaningless costume features are not tropes, but this whole attempt to "find" meanings for them runs the risk of inventing tropes out of whole cloth. I'm now inclined to accept the argument for Thigh High Boots specifically, but the issue is endemic to the whole cleanup.

Semi Related. What's your take on Underwear of Power? specifically the "wearing underwear outside tight pants" usage, which somehow includes robots?

I think it's a trope, in how strongly it's come to be associated with superheroes.

ZR is strongly associated with Moe characters and Tsundere, if not on either, connotes Joshikousei, but is a "meaningless costume feature otherwise".

simply wearing underwear outside indicates superhero. but if not on a hero, it would be on a Strongman. but is "not a meaningless costume feature otherwise"...

huh?

I'm not sure I follow you, but I don't think that Underwear of Power has anything to do with "strongmen". As far as I'm concerned, what makes it tropeworthy is specifically its association with superheroes. Other examples should probably be eliminated, just as the thread has been eliminating examples that are just "character with appearance element X" this whole time. I'd wait for the thread to formally discuss it, obviously, but that's my personal take.

Edit: I wasn't familiar with the trope originating from circus strongmen, so I get where that came from now, but it's still not really part of the modern trope. The example section seems to have a lot of misuse or confusion with other tropes.

ZR is a different matter. What I was saying was that, based on the last TRS thread I saw, what makes "exposed skin on the thighs" be tropeworthy is the whole culture that's sprung up around it, with the "grades" and so forth. It may also be associated with certain character types; I don't know anything about Japanese cultural tropes and I find the page creepy so I have no firsthand knowledge of that (although didn't you just say that "Zettai Ryouiki does not imply certain personality traits"?)

edited 26th Mar '14 5:59:17 AM by nrjxll

This thread has drifted off topic. We're on Thigh High Boots right now. Every other costume trope can wait until we resolve or shelf this one.

it doesn't imply personality traits, rather, those with said personality traits might wear them. like how not all superheroes wear Underwear of Power.

eitherway, getting back on THB. still think it's a triple threat Fanservice Costume with no meaning on its own, but rather is there to accentuate a character's thighs with the bonus connotation (therefore, meaning) of whatever material the boots is made of and whatever top the character is wearing.

basically, Icing on the Cake, which doesn't have meaning on it's own, but becomes meaningful if it comes with other tropes. I mean a naked woman wearing THB is just someone wearing exactly that, but specify leather boots, and make her put on miniskirt, bikini top and a furcoat and you've got yourself a whore. change the top to leggings and trench coat and you've got a fashionably street chic girl.

edited 26th Mar '14 5:42:47 PM by ShanghaiSlave

That makes more sense than just "boots by themselves" and also more than just "aggressive".

bump'n holler for thread header change.

What we need is more opinons on this "icing on the cake" idea. If I understand it correctly, the meaning changes based on the person and the rest of the outfit: action girl=aggressive, outdoorsy girl=tough, fastionista=fasion statement, miss fanservice=sex appeal. Is that right?

exactly.

I like it. I like it because it addresses both of the points raised in this discussion. On one hand, we're not shoehorning a "neutered" meaning in the trope, but on the other hand, it's more than a fetishfuel trope and has value for characterization.

742 is a good summation.

I agree with the above posters.

Okay, so all in all, we agree that Thigh High Boots is "A unique Personal Appearance Trope which have different meanings depending on other accompanying tropes"?

edited 11th Apr '14 5:25:02 AM by ShanghaiSlave

That definition gets my vote.

NO, I don't agree at all.

That makes it a supertrope. Because by that definition, it's any of a number of definitions all mashed together under one name — exactly that sort of mess we're trying to clean up in other personal appearance tropes.

I strenuously object to making that change. We'd be making a minor problem (Is the defining characteristic of a character wearing Thigh High boots that she's "aggressive" or that she's "overtly sexual"?) into a much bigger problem, and increasing the probability of ZCE flooding.

edited 11th Apr '14 9:07:23 AM by Madrugada

hmm, that's hard. most of the appearance tropes meaning change depending on the character.

let's take a look at a few arm clothing

• Detached Sleeves: has absolutely no meaning, it's literally just a clothing design type. giving it the naked test (what it means on a naked person) brings nothing.

• Opera Gloves: is another, but attempts to give it "royalty, rich, elegant, dominatrix" meanings. with "elegant" being the only common denominator. obviously hard to spot with long sleeves, but on anyone wearing sleeveless, it always gives the elegant look. meaning, otherwise, depends on who's wearing. naked test meaning is still elegant.

• Hand Hiding Sleeves: has a whopping five different meanings (regardless of bottom clothing) which are lumped together because HHS wearers hardly go under only one subtrope. the trope picture? each fall under at least two. the common denominator being "oversized sleeves" (quirky). the look itself depends on the character which delves on Captain Obvious territory (an ornate long-sleeve dress on a person gives the rich look). naked test meaning is nothing, meaning depends on character.

The problem here, is that we're divided into giving Thigh High Boots any of the three treatments?

so... lemme see,

• Thigh High Boots on a chic girl (the mentioned Badass Long Coat and Proper Tights with a Skirt or Zettai Ryouiki combo) gives the... to be honest, I can't tell. see for yourself (4 links) EDIT: 1st link was this
• Thigh High Boots on a whore (Who Wears Short Shorts, Walking Swimsuit Scene, Pretty in Mink) gives the "overtly sexual look".
• Thigh High Boots on an Action Girl (Battle Ballgown, Zettai Ryouki, aka Lu Lingqi which i mentioned before) gives the "aggressive" look.
• "Naked Test" as previously mentioned yields no meaning.

so i dunno, still can't find anything common depending on the accompanying dress. on the "boots on a specific character" part, again, it varies depending on the character. a whore will be a whore, an Action Girl will be an Action Girl.

edited 11th Apr '14 10:19:11 AM by ShanghaiSlave